Guide to the Pristine Rawhide Leather Backpack

[Glirfea]

If you are an Outfitter (level 10+), you can ALWAYS create Pristine Rawhide Leather Backpacks.

Let me briefly explain to you, how to achive that.

Lets note a few things.

The knowledge needed to create a "Rawhide Leather Backpack" is "Light Armoring", skill used is "Tailoring".
The primary component (determines maximum possible quality level for the finished product) for this is "Rawhide Hide Plate".

The knowledge needed to create a "Rawhide Hide Plate" is "Light Armoring", skill used is "Tailoring".
The primary component for this is "Rawhide Leather" (yes, recipe book says "Stretch of Rawhide" in the plate recipe, but the actual item is found as rawhide leather in the book).

The knowledge needed to create a "Rawhide Leather" is "Light Armoring", skill used is "Tailoring".
Primary item for that being a sullied low quality pelt, you have to go out there and trap from a rat den.

Now, why do I stress the necessary knowledge line so much?

Once you were approved as an outfitter by the tradesfolk and hit lvl 10, you received 9 additional tradeskill knowledges. 3 in the line of "Light Armoring", 3 in "Heavy Armoring" and 3 in "Weaponry".

The key to succes are your 3 new skills in light armoring, namely "Dexterous", "Embroider" and "Binding". The reason, why they are so important are, they let you IMPROVE durability. Actually, when you apply all 3 of them at the same time and get a regular success (-10 Durability, +50 Progress), your durability increases by +20 instead of going down.

Now, there is a cost associated with it:

"Dexterous" increases durabilty by +10, but lowers you chance of a sucessful skill roll.
"Embroider" increases durabilty by +10, but lowers your progress by -40. (so on a regular skill success, you get only get +10 progress)
"Binding" increases durability by +10, but lowers power (the power cost is not fixed, but proportional to your level)

Once durability drops you can get it back to 100% by a few choice applications of all 3 knowledges.

The crafting process might take a little longer, especially as "Embroider" reduces your progress advance heavily, but you can virtually be sure to remain at a level of durability to get pristine quality.

Note on actual crafting:

Personally I craft this using "Binding" constantly. It uses up a bit of power, but you get a +0 +50 on regular rolls.
If I am in the mood, I throw in "Nimble" (-1 +9) and "Stitching" (-3 +24) as well, just to get the thing done faster.

I rarely use "Knots", as it draws on power quite heavily.


I haven't tested the effects of the quality levels of the secondary components. I assume though that they increase starting durability, thereby giving you a larger margin of error.

Now go out there and provide quality items to all your customers.

cheerio

Direo of Lucan D'Lere :)


*** Disclaimer ***
I have not tried that process with tier 2 backpacks, as I don't have that recipe yet.

Values as at 16 November 2004, EQ2 (post-beta)

[Herculez]

Ive found that just using Dexterous and Binding, you get on the average pulse +10 durability and +50 Progress, and a fair rate of critical successes resulting in +20-28 durability and +100-128 progress. Ive made several pristines using just those 2 counters and on about 80% of them i end up with no net durability loss at all, a perfect combo if you will. Embroider slows the process to much and except for those times you need to actually counter an event using this, and critical fails where you would need the maximum + durability, you can get by with just using Dexterous and Binding. The power loss for this duo is minor, and you can easily craft 4 backpacks without stopping for power to regen. I am only a skill 10 outfitter, so this is easily doable by anyone who has chosen this as their profession.

As to quality of secondary components, they have no effect on the starting duability that i have ever been able to notice. However they do have a significant effect on the experience gained from the combo, so it is definatly worth your time to craft your own ingredients as you not only get more exp from the final combo, you get a little exp from the sub combos, as well as saving a load of cash since tempers and chloro resins/oils/washes produce in quantites of 4 for pristine combines.

[qrom]

Very cool information. I had on odd times just pressed icons like these to see if it made a difference. Not understanding the system welle nough yet - it was unclear to me if they did anything when a problem icon wasnt showing that I had to react to... so apparently - per your instructions we can actually press these buttons to effect the item during its creation even if its not reacting to a problem?

Thanks for the helpful information!

qrom

[Herculez]

Correct, you can use counters even when there is nothing to counter. Using the right combination of your lvl 2 abilities you can essentially stall out durability loss. Also, you can use a counter in that set for events not matching the event, though you wont get the bonus you can avoid the effects of the counter you didnt want to use. For example, since embroidery lowers progress so much, i use dexterious or binding to counter events with the embroidery picture, i dont get the stadard dex or bind bonus, but i also dont get the standard embroidery losses.

[Beran]

I've used this to make some Rawhide, then Tanned Leather Backpacks. Very handy, thanks.

Also, I noticed, when I used the Counters a great deal, as buffs, that I seem to get skillups in tailoring much faster than when I just use them as Counters. Is that intended, do you think or am I just imagining things?

[qrom]

I tried this last night - was low on supplies and cash but in 3 attempts I got 3 tailoring skillups , and that is pretty unheard of for me. I do think button mashing increases skillups.

Of course - I did not have any pelts only tier 3 plates ; so I used this technique to make the bags themselves which did seem to get me higher averages so I will hope to harvest more pelts and try this on my components too and expect I may find myself coming towards the pristine area.

Thanks again - very helpful.

Qrom

[naja]

Wild speculation, but perhaps pristine items give you a higher chance for a skillup, just like they give you more xp.

[Peregrine]

I do think button mashing increases skillups.
Qrom


Oh it definitely does, skillups come from the use of your tailoring skills, i.e. the crafting events. It has been very noticeable to me that when you craft difficult items that have a lot of events, your skills go up very fast, I brought up my metalworking skills 20 points in a couple of hours just constantly making iron bars and iron spikes which were even to me, and I was constantly mashing buttons.

[Korin]

I have noticed that after the patch, its no longer possible to do this constantly. If you happen to have the combo of buffs up when an event occurs, you get negative durability and progress effects. Can anyone confirm this? I noticed that if you use any buff other than the proper counter during the event, instead of the usual positive effects you end up with two negative effects. This did not happen before the last patch. I have done this all night last night and it happened every single time.

[Herculez]

I havent noticed anything like this, maybe your doing a combo thats a rather high con, or using a skill you arent as well trained in. Also, watch out for the buffs that lower your chance for success like dexterious. chance for success is the chance that each pulse will grant you a critical fail, normal, or critical success. With a tailoring skill of 70, even using dexterious, my success rate is nearly 80-90%, but with a lower skill or a high lvl item i would expect you would fail quite often.

[Chapman]

I am a lvl 12 Outfitter and my tailoring is at 40. but I still having a hard time on making backpacks.

How can you use those skills like Dexterous, Embroider, Binding? I only see some skill being used automatically when I am tailoring.

[Breez]

I did this and made my 1st pristine backpack last night... then the next was pristine, and the next and the...

13 out of 14 were pristine. that 1 was standard.

Note I am a level 12 outfitter making a level 5 recipe so I don't think this is too out of sorts.

Chapman - I am a lvl 12 Outfitter and my tailoring is at 40. but I still having a hard time on making backpacks.

How can you use those skills like Dexterous, Embroider, Binding? I only see some skill being used automatically when I am tailoring.

If I read your question correctly...

You can use Dextereous on ticks when nothing requiring a counter happens.

In other words I watch the numbers. Then I look if something needs countered. If so I counter it, if not I cast a buff or 2. I liked binding adn dexterous. They gave me a average tick of +10/+50 at the cost of some power. If I was in no danger of losing my pristine level then I simply did Dextereous alone. Giving me a average tick of +0/+50. This cost me no power and made it so I didnt need to med between backpacks

[Herculez]

That is the absoulute best way to do tailoring at that lvl. I am always making backpacks or leather armor which ranges from skill 5-9, and have yet to make anything less than pristine. With a tailoring skill of 70, my chance of success is so high that using dexterous is all i ever bother with. Learning how to use counters properly is one of the keys to becoming a great crafter. Also, dont ignore the lower lvl counters which raise progress for either power or duability. With the + durability from dexterous, you can afford to lose 3-4 durability a tick at the cost of +15 progress.

[Gedwin]

I too use dexterous on most rounds, but I throw in the occasional level 1 knot counter (forget the name - it's medium power for large progress). It just helps get the thing done faster. If I start to slip in durability a little, I use the level 2 knot counter and dexterous. If I REALLY start to slip, then I hit all 3 level 2s. On any tailoring combine I rarely fall below half durability on the pristine level this way. I made a pristine tailored burlap slippers today (which I'm wondering now if I should have just gone with the plain instead of the pristine) with no trouble, and it's a level 11+ (don't remember exactly). If you pay attention to what each counter costs, your situation, and if something needs to be countered, tailoring is pretty easy. It does take attention, quick analysis, and reflexes in some cases, but I haven't had a tailoring combine less than pristine in a long while.

Also, don't be afraid to use the stop button. If you have a couple bad failures right off the bat, stop the combine. It's woth it to lose the 6cp and try again than try to make a pristine starting with a debt.

[StyxParadox]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread. The advice here has made crafting more enjoyable and more effective. Thanks for your help. It is amazing how fast I am lvling up now.

[cromulent]

I use binding and dexterous a lot myself. I get pretty good results with that button combo when you get those pesky -50 durability hits.

I only use embroidering for when I need it for countering, and I usually follow that up with binding. Most of the time you get small gains, like +2 +9, but rarely I have seen +20 +80 after that button combo.

[Nodlo]

yep it is so great to not keep a secret and post on public forums for everyone to read so that SOE may make it even harder to tailor at high levels.


good work indeed.

[Zendaken]

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but let's try to be constructive in our posts Nodlo. The sarcasm is not welcome, especially in terms of indicating that we should hide these flaws.

Thanks.

[Nodlo]

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but let's try to be constructive in our posts Nodlo. The sarcasm is not welcome, especially in terms of indicating that we should hide these flaws.



This isnt a flaw, it is a tradeskill secret that helps tailoring. It is like any other skill that has secrets. What he posted isnt something new or just recently discovered, he is just the first one to rush to the boards and post about it, more than likely to gain some sort of credibility at the expense of those that actually worked to discover the techniques.

[Gedwin]

Well, SOE does have a history of hitting the boards and nerfing systems that seem to work well, but I hate to say most of these systems needed nerfing as they were not in the spirit of how they were supposed to be used. I don't think we're in any danger of losing the effects of our counters, as they were meant to be buffs as well, are working as intended (mostly), and don't provide any huge game imbalance. Mostly what has been covered here is counter combinations that work well. They're not failure proof: they're just failure resistant.

The other day I was tailoring something (don't recall what) and got just past the crude level when I got 5 critical failures in a row. I had no durability left in my pristine bar, and I DID manage to pull off a pristine, but one more failure of pretty much any degree whould have sunk me to regular tailored. It's definately still possible.

[Deneldar]

What he posted isnt something new or just recently discovered, he is just the first one to rush to the boards and post about it, more than likely to gain some sort of credibility at the expense of those that actually worked to discover the techniques.

One question.

Why are you here.

If you're not going to post anything you "discover" surely you're just here leaching info from those that:

actually worked to discover the techniques

[Nodlo]

I am here to see what new tradeskill items has been discovered. Reread your post as it contradicts what i said. Discovery of tradeskill techniques is a prize that should be shared with only those close to you, if you are trying to run a marketable business.

Anyways this bores me. I made my point.

[Herculez]

Since it started back in the early days of EQ Live, eqtraders has been a site dedicated to helping everyone learn the best way to practice in a tradeskill. If new tradeskill discoveries arent shared with others, then the progression of discoveries in that craft slows as you only have one or two people able to work at the peak level and have the ability to discover the best methods. The fact that you are so upset about others posting their knowledge tells me that you are probally one of those who mass produces items and drops em on 4 different traders and tries to get 5 times what the item is worth. The tradeskill community cannot progress without those that have learned the tricks of the trade sharing with those who wish to progress to the point that they can make their own discoveries and share with others. Getting mad at others for telling what they know is crazy, you should be thanking those who wish to help you and others learn the best methods at a cost of their own personal profits.

[Goonie]

Good info!! Keep it up!

[Valr]

Glirfea, thanks a ton for the information. Sharing discoveries helps everyone.

[Ollimonger]

I haven't tested the effects of the quality levels of the secondary components. I assume though that they increase starting durability, thereby giving you a larger margin of error.

Secondary Components have no effect at all on your chances of a Pristine.


*** Disclaimer ***
I have not tried that process with tier 2 backpacks, as I don't have that recipe yet.

Values as at 16 November 2004, EQ2 (post-beta)

This Process works with any and everything dealing with Tailoring/Leatherworking. I made 6 Tier 2 Back packs the other night, all 6 Pristine, and it was my first attempt at the Recipie. (though one was a close call...a Pox on you RNG)

This isnt a flaw, it is a tradeskill secret that helps tailoring. It is like any other skill that has secrets. What he posted isnt something new or just recently discovered, he is just the first one to rush to the boards and post about it, more than likely to gain some sort of credibility at the expense of those that actually worked to discover the techniques.

Actually you are correct and incorrect. This has been posted before but not in so nice a format. I have posted about similar combos (pre Outfitter) and Torval (sp?) has posted as well saying which combos he likes, and Ariadne has an entire guide out for all the buffs. Glirfea deserves credit for trying to help new crafters and for taking the time to write up a very nice guide with specific examples on a specific item. Keep up the good work Glirfea. :)

[Ngreth Thergn]

And we don't care if you keep a secret.

As long as you don't come to the boards with an attitude like "Nya Nya I know how to do it and I am not telling you" (And no, you did not do this... I am just saying...)

But yes, this community is based on sharing with ALL not just your small group or guild.

[Gavoryn]

As far as the 2ndary component thing. I have no way of measuring it, since it's all based on skill checks and chance, but I did seem to notice several more successes when using pristine 2ndary components on these backpacks prior to reaching level 10 and becoming an outfitter.

However, I think you are right, once you get the Embroider, Binding, and Dexterous counters, it is much less of an issue. Also, at that point, your tailoring skill should be higher, enabling more skill check success right?

I also apply these counters to everything that I make, and have had impressive but not flawless results. 5 minutes ago, I was crafting some refined rawhide, and actually made a rawhide leather, instead of pristine. This recipe is even grey to me, so in my opinion, there is no exploit about it. You would expect a tailor to be more skilled at tailoring than a neophyte crafter yes? Partially due to years of experience, but also perhaps do to advance techniques?

[Falaine]

I am a lvl 12 Outfitter and my tailoring is at 40. but I still having a hard time on making backpacks.

How can you use those skills like Dexterous, Embroider, Binding? I only see some skill being used automatically when I am tailoring.


I think what you mean is HOW do you use these skills.

Check your EQII button at the bottom left of your screen and choose KNOWLEDGE.

Click on TRADESKILLS.

These are a list of buffs/corrective measures you can use once you start the crafting process. You can drag them down to your tool bar and just press buttons to use them throughout your crafting session. The rest is explained on which ones to use in other parts of this thread.

I personally just discovered this tonight and made 8 pristine backpacks in a row, after never getting above Shaped before that.

I'm not making them to sell and flood them market, just making them for friends and to get skill ups, since I think I plan to go weaponsmith - but after reading that section it seems a bit discouraging.

I hope this helped, Chapman.

[Elyana]

Very well written indeed =) I have been slowly figuring these buffs out but I admit that I have been flying more on instinct in certain areas than on hard cold facts. If you think about it, these tradeskill buffs are OUR heroic opportunities. The devs always said they would make it so the crafter who was skillful would do well. It isn't about button mashing, or revealing secrets that devs will nerf. It is about figuring out the system and applying it. Why would a warrior NOT use his HO's? Likewise why would a crafter not use their buffs?

[Chokotay]

I want to throw in my 2cp on this (would be more but cash flow kinda low right now :rolleyes: ) For a causual gamer like myself this type of information is essential. It allows for us to progress and actually enjoy the game. The key point here is that this is a game, thus something to enjoy. We are all not out to become uber crafters. Just to enjoy and progress where we can.

Keep the info coming it is appreciated!!!!!