Fair price for maple quills and cailun paper?

[Imaru]

As a level 13 craftswoman, I find my skills are VERY in demand to make maple quills and paper. I'm wondering what is a fair price to charge all of these desperate scholars. So far I've been taking spells in trade (1 spell for 5 quills and paper).

So - if a scholar provides the stroma resin, oil, washes, AND all the maple/tubers, what's a fair price? 1 silver per combine? That would cost 60 silver for a stack, which seems excessive. On the other hand, those tier 2 App3 spells are selling like hotcakes at 15-20 silver each right now.

What if they provide the washes, resin and oil, but no harvested material? (Assuming I can get my foresting up that high, grr.) What would be a fair price then?

I really don't want to price gouge, and I'm happy to help out fellow crafters, I just want some advice on this. Scholars are far more common than craftswomen, so there is a supply and demand affect going on, I think.

Thanks!

[Macord]

Imaru,

You seem to have the same problem I do with pricing. While most people gouge the market for all it's worth, I tend to find it difficult to charge too much for pixels, even though I, like everyone else, need coin to buy other things and supplies. I like your system of trade, but I also wouldn't balk from the 60s a stack. From that stack a scribe is going to at least make 15-17 combines successfully, which atm equals 150 or more silver in this market. Those scribes buying stacks can afford it. Until prices go down, don't sell your services short.

[Torval the Harvester]

I agree, go for it. Market forces will normalize and no one is going hungry are a result. The free market isn't fair in real life because it ignores basic rights and needs. Well, what is anyone's basic right and need in EQ2 that you might prevent the fulfillment of by selling for what you can get?

Gouge away. No one else will cut you a break just because you are under-selling. Well, perhaps untrue. If you make genuine friends then do whatever you can for them and they are definitely worth more than any amount of silver in the long run. But you don't owe nothing to strangers.

'Val

[Davidus]

I need quills and paper! PST if anyone can make on Guk..

Im on the good side...

Davidus
15 enchanter
13 Scholar

[Ashago]

Right now, its Econ101 at its best with a prime example of supply vs demand. As supply increases, demand goes down (more people get what they want) and thusly so does prices. As supply decreases, demand goes up and prices are high.

So, basically, I try to charge enough that I move my supplies fast, but not to fast. On the Guk server, I sell cailun paper at 2sp and Maple Quills (almost all are pristine) at 4sp. At that price, I can't keep them in stock. If I stayed with the supply curve, I should up my prices, but I can't see charging more than that for my supplies. App3 spells are going for 15sp on the Guk server too.

Davidus, I'm on the evil side, but fast approaching L20. So maybe one day I can get over to Antonica for some quills/paper for you.

Anyone else looking for paper/quills on the evil side, I usually go into trader mode at night with my supply. Come early, as its usually all gone when I get up in the morning.

/salute

[theblackcrayon]

Well, I've made a two really good tradeskill friends, and both of them need craftsman skills (and I need them as well). The scholar brings me all the materials i need, and i make the quills for him free of charge (he makes me runes when i need them in exchange). The outfitter needs some things from me, he brings me materials, and i get bags/armor out of it. It's win/win/win. My toon keeps decent equipment and abilities (plus the occasional few silver) and they get what they need to make some money.

[Goragg]

on kithicor I charge 4 silver per 3 papers or quill. i can't keep them in stack and people keep coming back for more. if the previous posters are charging 4 silver EACH, then all I can say is wow. they cost under 1 silver each to make (don't forget we get 1silver just from scraps on each quill)

[Torval the Harvester]

on kithicor I charge 4 silver per 3 papers or quill. i can't keep them in stack and people keep coming back for more. if the previous posters are charging 4 silver EACH, then all I can say is wow. they cost under 1 silver each to make (don't forget we get 1silver just from scraps on each quill)

Goragg

They are talking about maple quills and calium paper, tier two. Trust me when I say you won't find it quite so convenient to make those in the future.

'Val

[Eomund]

Probably get slammed for this but heres my view:

I have never liked price gouging.

Generally as a rule of thumb I charge 1.5-2x what it costs me to make the item or 10% more than the vendor is charging for one level higher quality, which ever is less.

If someone brings me all the components and all I need to do is the combines, I will generally do this for free the first time, then if it becomes repetitive, ask for something in trade or fair donation.

And as always, I love to haggle and barter. To me thats the fun of selling.

I realize that not everyone will subscribe to this model, but its just a game.

So if you are on Permafrost and need anything Tier 2 (soon to be Tier 3), feel free to look me up.

[Mortimus_Minimus]

Eomund
In principle, I agree with your views, and in a stable economy they will work. I particularly like the posts above, where small groups have formed, regularly supplying each other with their needs and all gaining from the relationship. That is the model I see working in EQ2, and will certainly be the model I will be aiming towards within my guild.

Unfortunately, in the present climate, your reasonably priced components will be snapped up by others and converted to finished items. Will they charge less? No chance! I would go with the market for the time being, when the supply begins to meet the demand, life will become more sane :)

Mort

[Maena Bowyer]

Personal opinion?

Until/unless I start seeing quills for sale in any quantity, I plan on charging the same % markup on them I see being charged by scholars for their stroma's... After all THEY are the ones buying the quills/paper BACK from me.

stromas cost 1 candle, 1 water, 1 branch/root... the easiest things to harvest... and they get 4 back... so 12cp (6cp candle, 6cp aerated water) and a harvest.. so 3cp per. (yes, I'm saying the branch/root is negligable. like I said, easiest to harvest. You practically trip over them.) They charge 50cp per. That's a markup of.. 1666%.

So... let's see. Don't remember recipe for quills, but I'd guess it's 1 stroma, 1 sandpaper, + wood. Again, wood is negligable, so cost comes out to... uhm... minimum 56cp because of what THEY are selling the stroma for. Charge the same markup the scholars are charging (you only get 1 quill out, right?) and you come to a price of... 933cp, or 9 silver. So, until/unless they bring THEIR prices into the realm of reason, I'll be charging 9 silver for what THEY need.

Incidentally, my prices for what outfitters need, (assuming they need something) is MUCH more reasonable...

[Tashim]

As a scholar, I find your logic somewhat baffling, but perhaps thats just me.

I find valuing harvested items as worthless to be pointless. It takes time to gather, even with the approperiate skills, and time = money. When I craft, I use my own harvested materials, but I also often use materials that I bought or traded for, etc. raw supplies do have a market value.

As a hypothetical example, lets say that Tier2 materials are worth 30c each. (in reality, I find them to be less, but for this example, that'll work fine.)

my pricing scheme:
parts: 06c : candle
06c : water
30c : roots
labor: 30c (based on value of components) per combine

This makes 4 stroma, valued at 72c (~18c each). I would consider any "markup" to be based on this value.

When I put items up for sale to the public, I charge based on supply and demand, if people will buy them for 50c (or more), then that is what I'll sell them at.

When I'm working "wholesale", for crafters with whom I have an established relationship with, then I charge the base cost of 18c. (I only do wholesale by the stack, but that puts a stack of stroma at ~3.6s) This still gives a value for each component, and each combine, and will still keep people "profitable", while keeping supply costs as low as possible. I'm not in business for charity.

[javalin]

06c : candle
06c : water
30c : roots

water is now 18c

so its actually

6+18= 24c/4=6 copper cost for tempers if you harvest yoru own roots/tubers/ore

[Tashim]

My point is tho, that even using your own harvested supplies, it should still be given a value. That is time spent, and those can be sold/bought.

[Goragg]

um, i am talking about maple quills and caulim(sp) paper too...you people way over charge
<<edit>>
Or maybe I'm just not as greedy as most people.

[Davidus]

Davidus, I'm on the evil side, but fast approaching L20. So maybe one day I can get over to Antonica for some quills/paper for you.

Yay! I hope to hit 20 by this weekend...we shall meet someday Ashago!

[javalin]

i dont charge for quills or paper cause i dont sell them but if i did it would prolly be 1 silver for each or so

[Maena Bowyer]

I have to agree, my real response is just don't sell 'em. Sooner or later prices of stroma will drop to something reasonable. and IMO, 50cp isn't. It's way too easy to level to 10.

And yes, I was exaggerating for effect... (but not by that much) I'll agree that 30cp is fairly reasonable for stroma. 50cp ain't.

If you'll notice:
6cp (aerated water... did they REALLY change price to 18 or are you thinking the distilled stuff?)

3cp per combine, charging 30 = 10x

price for quill would then be 40 for parts (and change) x10, or 4sp, which seems to be pretty close to the average price here. If I ever notice that harvesting the easy parts gets to be a huge hastle, (I usually manage to harvest enough while hunting with friends, so it's not really taking up "extra time"), then I may consider including it in the price to make.

[Daul]

Teir 1 are the only harvests that are hard to get, tier 2 is much easier. I agree with not adding them to the price. I charge 3s10c per Cailun paper and Maple Quill (that's on Najena) and every time I check the brokers, i'm selling at the lowest price. Stromas are selling for 60c a piece, but I have a mutual alliance with a Scholar, so I have no problems in that department. I would however like to point out - when I go to negotiate deals, I offer a price cut if they deliver the stromas I need to make them, and every single one wants me to lower my price to 1s. My answer to that is that I would never buy stromas for 60c let alone 2s, so I wont cut 2s out of the costs. It seems to me, at least with who I have met, that people think Scholars should be the only ones making a profit, which I personally find rediculous. Ok, enough rambling from me :P
Daul

[Ngreth Thergn]

I have to agree, my real response is just don't sell 'em. Sooner or later prices of stroma will drop to something reasonable. and IMO, 50cp isn't. It's way too easy to level to 10.

And yes, I was exaggerating for effect... (but not by that much) I'll agree that 30cp is fairly reasonable for stroma. 50cp ain't.



Just a note.

*IF* the workshops start selling it at tier 3
AND *IF* the prices stay the same as in beta.

these liquids will be 48c from the NPC merchants.

so people will need to sell it at 40c to "match" the NPC price, and include the 20% broker markup.

[TyrDrakul]

When we were making Maple quills and paper (this is not beta), we were saying you know you supply us with the parts (not including fuels) plus 10 maple and we will make them for you. This was when we got skill for them. Now we charge 3sp each (for quills or paper), and even then we might turn down the job cause we do not keep tier 2 parts on us often any more. but even at 2-3sp a piece they sell fast.

chow
Jatz

[Aguirre]

I made 10 quills and papers after getting reamed on stroma stuff (50c to 1 sp each). It took probably 1 hour to do everything (idea to result). Afterwards I went around auctioning thinking they be selling like mad.

In the end I could only get trades. Final product folks are greedy. :p They want all the profit :p I tried 7sp per set which seems fair since as mentioned they sell for 15-20sp. I had offers for 2-3sp per set which seems entirely insane when they'll sell right after a simple combine (no fail essentially) for 15-20sp.

I will not make them again unless it is for guildies or until the expected price goes way up.

There are much better ways to make cash :)

[Vapors]

I made 10 quills and papers after getting reamed on stroma stuff (50c to 1 sp each). It took probably 1 hour to do everything (idea to result). Afterwards I went around auctioning thinking they be selling like mad.

In the end I could only get trades. Final product folks are greedy. :p They want all the profit :p I tried 7sp per set which seems fair since as mentioned they sell for 15-20sp. I had offers for 2-3sp per set which seems entirely insane when they'll sell right after a simple combine (no fail essentially) for 15-20sp.

I will not make them again unless it is for guildies or until the expected price goes way up.

There are much better ways to make cash :)

I guess experiences really do vari, I make stacks of paper and quills for the last few days and I cant keep it in stock. Normaly been selling them for 1.5sp to 2sp. Ive made over 5 gold in the 3 days.

~Vapors

[Aguirre]

But the refined maple itself I think sells for 1sp, and the scraps for 50c:

20 maple - 20sp
40 scraps - 20sp

I can get 2sp per maple that I refine, by immediately selling to a vendor.

[Aguirre]

Actually, I think the quills sell for 1sp now that I am thinking about it, not the actual pristime lumber....I'll have to double check tonight.

I still think that for the time invested the actual profit we are making is very small....if we sell at 1.5-2sp each. And we're passing most/all the profit on to the final product.

[Flounder]

I'm on Guk and put a stack of Pristine Calium Paper on sale last night at 3sp each, did some laundry and they all were sold in less than an hour.

I like to sell my items at the low end of the market but not at the bottom. Right now my price seemed about right, I'm sure it will go down in the near future but for now I feel like I'm where I want to be.

I love that eq2 has a open market.

[Aguirre]

EQ2 tskills kick butt :) I am not a all unhappy, just mentioning my maple quill experience :p

that's where i'd want to sell paper for, 3sp for paper and 3sp for quills (really 3.5, but close enough hehe)


Also, from chatting with scholars, I think the ink is the primary component, so the papers do not need to be pristine, though it is good for tskill exp and might apear to be better :)

[Astarelle]

Set yourself up with a scholar and trade out quills and paper for extra stroma supplies. The most I've spent on stroma supplies is 40cp a combine with me providing the supplies. I'd much rather gather the ingrediants than spend 1s a piece on that stuff.

[CraftyRat]

The other night, while Tradeskilling, I got a tell from someone who needed 5 Maple quills and 5 Calium papers...I'd never been asked directly by someone outside my guild to make them anything, so I had no idea how much to charge. I just thought in my head, 3 sp each item, but thought 30 SP would be too much to ask, so I knocked it down to 25 sp, and the person gladly paid it. I'm still scratching my head because the combines are easy for me and I made like a 22 sp profit on 15 minutes work. Not bad.

[Aguirre]

If I were to buy the components it would not be nearly as profitable, probably 15sp cost (depending on whether the actual quill combine uses stroma or not).

Did you make the stroma materials yourself, using book 10?

It is still possible to make intermediate items and sell them directly back to a merchant for about that same profit. Can save the time of looking for buyers etc. and probably overall make better cash/time.

I really look forward to tier 3 when things will probably slow down and be truly interdependent.

[photon]

As a laissez-faire capitalist, I strongly urge my fellow tradesmen to abandon subjective terms like "price gouging." If someone is willing to pay a price for a particular product or service, there is no "gouging" occuring whatsoever. Two parties that make a trade in EQ2 are making a MUTUAL agreement that benefits BOTH parties. Price gouging is a function of exploiting a monopoly...and since there is no lack of any one type of tradesman on any server, and certainly not enough organization or malice to create and maintain "trusts", there cannot BE price "gouging."

Besides, technically, no one MUST have any item they can't craft themselves in order to survive or advance. Yes, items we KINDLY OFFER for sale can make one's journey easier (and faster), but they certainly are not required.

Therefore, please charge as much as you can for your products and services lest you damage the future of your trade's profitability (and attract the scorn of your fellow tradesmen for undervaluing THEIR work as well as your own).

Please don't undervalue the TIME and EFFORT that goes into your craft. Remember that the value of an item is not based soley on the sum of all its component values! It is based on the HOURS (and sometimes DAYS) you spend researching, exploring, harvesting, refining, shaping, and perfecting your skills! Appreciate your hard efforts...and reward yourself appropriately for these labourious expenditures by reflecting them in your prices!

Thanks!

[Wolfysins]

We need to be recompensated for the hell that is tier 1 harvesting.

[Rattus]

Well on befallen Callium paper isn't selling to bad at 5sp a piece and if I could be bothered making the quills I wouldn't sell at a lower price than that either.

Dumn thing was I saw some tapa paper up at 5s too, which if it continues is going to seriously devalue what market the woodworker's have!

[Ngreth Thergn]

This may have to go down.

The problem being, Adept I spells are too common, making them cheaper than similar Apprentice 3 spells if the paper costs too much :/

Still too eraly to tell waht the breaking point will be.

[beylanu]

As a laissez-faire capitalist, I strongly urge my fellow tradesmen to abandon subjective terms like "price gouging." If someone is willing to pay a price for a particular product or service, there is no "gouging" occuring whatsoever. Two parties that make a trade in EQ2 are making a MUTUAL agreement that benefits BOTH parties. Price gouging is a function of exploiting a monopoly...and since there is no lack of any one type of tradesman on any server, and certainly not enough organization or malice to create and maintain "trusts", there cannot BE price "gouging."

Besides, technically, no one MUST have any item they can't craft themselves in order to survive or advance. Yes, items we KINDLY OFFER for sale can make one's journey easier (and faster), but they certainly are not required.

Therefore, please charge as much as you can for your products and services lest you damage the future of your trade's profitability (and attract the scorn of your fellow tradesmen for undervaluing THEIR work as well as your own).

Please don't undervalue the TIME and EFFORT that goes into your craft. Remember that the value of an item is not based soley on the sum of all its component values! It is based on the HOURS (and sometimes DAYS) you spend researching, exploring, harvesting, refining, shaping, and perfecting your skills! Appreciate your hard efforts...and reward yourself appropriately for these labourious expenditures by reflecting them in your prices!

Thanks!


/agree 100%

If they don't like the price, they can raise an alt to do it.

That being said, there are some outrageous prices out there..like 5 slot shaped rawhide bags for 20sp on some traders../boggle...I sell my 6slot pristines for 9sp on trader and 7sp in auction.

To me that is reasonable, considering you can buy 6 slot no WR bags from merchants for about 6.5sp. The 9sp is a bit over priced IMO, but then again, they are selling. So someone is willing to spend the silvers so they don't have to make it themselves. All's fair as no one is twisting their arm to buy my bags.

B

I never did the full math, but I think it costs me slightly over 1sp to make the bag, if I farm the pelts. The buckle material and the cord material I buy from wholesaler, which I count in the price, along with all the fuels.

As a note, prices on 6 slot bags are falling pretty fast now, as the 8 slot bags are in style now..hehe..don't you just love supply and demand!? Happy TS'ing!

[Korsis]

People saying that harvests have no value are being ridiculous.

You realize, don't you, that you could sell the harvests without ever doing anything to them, right? On Crushbone server, tubers are only just now *starting* to dip below 1s each on the broker. Now, I can't say for sure if they are selling at that price, but I would assume that they are, since no one has been willing to undercut that price until recently.

Now if you want to debate the price, fine, but saying that harvests are worthless is ridiculous. If you want to say the time spent harvesting is worth nothing, it makes just as much sense (i.e. none) to say the time spent crafting is worth nothing and everyone should sell everything at cost.

And point two. If I put up stroma washes for 50c overnight, I'm pretty much guaranteed to sell out by morning, assuming I don't get disconnected. Since I can sell out easily at 50c, I have zero incentive to sell at less than that. If you want to blame someone, don't blame the alchemists. Blame the consumers of stroma, that's who is driving up the price!

[Oaga]

Stroma at 50c??

Let me buy them all for a while cross server. I can sell them for 70c to 1s plus on Permafrost

[Dafydd]

Stroma at 50c??

Let me buy them all for a while cross server. I can sell them for 70c to 1s plus on Permafrost

I expect Stroma prices to fall to about 30cp.

[Dilligaf]

hi

i generally don't charge other crafters for stuff they need as long as they also will do the same for me.

other's i just ask for a donation rather than a fixed price.

and since i have an amazingly good memory, i always remember who tipped me in the past and who didn't.

those that didn't get charged next time.

this system has worked for me for 4 games since 1996.

i may never get rich but then they are just 1's and 0's

:)

[Aguirre]

Well said photon! :)