Ben Skelly answers for EQ2 Traders Corner

[Ngreth Thergn]

We recently got to ask SOE a few questions and we recieved answers from Ben Skelly, EverQuest II Mechanics Designer about tradeskills in Everquest 2.

Can you tell us more about the classes and subclasses of the artisan tree?

We have expanded the artisan advancement path to give players more choices in what tradeskills they wish to specialize. You begin with the artisan archetype, which lets you to try out a range of recipes to see what kinds of items you enjoy making.

Once you have achieved level 10 in the artisan archetype, you select your class. The class choices are craftsman, outfitter, and scholar. The craftsman specializes in making brews and beverages, food, wooden weapons and shields, and furniture. The outfitter makes metal weapons and armor, as well as leather and cloth armor. The scholar deals in spell upgrades, combat art upgrades, jewelry, talismans, potions, and poisons.

Once you have progressed to level 20 in your artisan class you make your subclass choice. The choices for subclass are based upon what class you have chosen.

The craftsman can choose from the provisioner, who makes brews, beverages, and food; the woodworker, who makes staves, bows, shields, arrows, and instruments; or the carpenter, who makes different types of furniture used to decorate player houses.

The outfitter can choose from the armorer, who makes metal armors (plate and chain); the weaponsmith, who makes metal weapons (swords, axes, daggers, hammers, etc.); or the tailor, who makes cloth and leather armors.

The scholar can choose from the jeweler, who makes talismans and jewelry; the sage, who makes combat art and spell scrolls; or the alchemist, who makes potions and poisons.

How much interdependence will there be with the various artisan classes and subclasses?

A key feature of this new artisan structure is that it introduces much more interdependency between professions. For example, you might be an armorer who is making a set of plate mail for your friendly neighborhood ogre. Crafting the armor might require some small studs and struts to be made by a jeweler, as well as some padding from a tailor. The armorer will make the large plates of metal and will assemble the armor to create the finished product.

One of the most often asked questions is, which class and/or subclass gets Baking and brewing. Which get Fletching? Editors Note: We asked this before the reveal of the change in artisan classes, I am including it here for completeness.

The craftsman class gets baking, brewing, and fletching. The provisioner subclass specializes in baking and brewing, while the woodworker subclass specializes in all things fletching.

One concern that keeps popping up is, will an Artisan be required to choose one of the 4 other archetypes before they are allowed off refuge Isle? And related to that, are there any introductory quests for artisans on refuge isle like there are for the other classes, or do you just need to go chose your starting city right away, if you want to skip the "combat" archetypes.

There are quests on the Isle of Refuge that introduce players to tradeskills just as there are quests for the adventuring archetypes. You will still be required to pick your adventure archetype before you can leave the Isle, as that is an important aspect of your character. But you can go to the cities soon after arriving on the Isle of Refuge, so you won't be forced into lengthy adventuring quests if you choose not to stay on that path.

The crafting shop that one pledges themselves to is an interesting idea. Will a person be committed to one such that they cannot change shops at a later time, or will faction allow them to move shops as they gain reputation?

The crafting shops are part of our tradeskill social structures. Once you choose a tradeskill shop that you'd like to join, you work to build your reputation within that shop and thereby gain certain benefits. If you decide that you don't like that shop anymore you can pledge yourself to another shop, but you will have to build up your standing again in the new location.

We realize SOE has stated that crafting quests will be limited on a certain number per day, will this impact the ability of a crafter to be self sufficient (excluding adventuring) while leveling? Will we have to be dependent on others to buy our wears consistently to fund the given trade?

As we currently have the system designed, we do not limit the number of quests that an artisan can complete in a day. You can feel free to advance at your own pace.

Our tradeskill social structure system allows you to be a fully independent person. You can gain experience, standing, and money by completing tasks that any workshop can assign to you. You will not have to be solely dependent on others to buy your wares to fund your trade, but to make the truly great items in the game you will need certain items obtainable by skilled and daring adventurers.

Thank you for your time in answering these questions.

[javalin]

/em does the happy dance some infos finally yea

[Evfil]

Great info, thanks for digging out some specifics for us!

Now if only we could find out a definitive answer about stats and profession :p

[Neko]

Nice info. Thanks.

So unlike EQlive, we must choose an Artisan path to follow and cannot change later on? So if I intially pick Craftsman, but at level 20 I discover that I would rather smith, am I out of luck?

Neko~

[Krazick]

The crafting shops are part of our tradeskill social structures. Once you choose a tradeskill shop that you'd like to join, you work to build your reputation within that shop and thereby gain certain benefits. If you decide that you don't like that shop anymore you can pledge yourself to another shop, but you will have to build up your standing again in the new location.

Hmmm... I wonder if you could build up your reputation in multiple shops? Or does increasing in one reduce in all the others?

Would your reputation suffer if you simply play your character (adventuring) and don't get back to the shop for several "game months"? Do you have to make regular appearances to have the shop owner remember you? Would your hard earned skills get "rusty"... and you need to practice some again?...

Well, one could say that you might not remember all the little tricks if you don't use them... but I am referring to the in-game attributes/benefits/skill level, rather than our personal abilities, due to real-life distractions... interuptions... and sidetracking...

[DeWeasel]

Finally! :D Nice to have some solid info! Thanks Ngreth for getting this together!


Edited for typing a "1" instead of a "!" :D

[Grei]

Yay...finally some lovin' for EQ2TC. :)

Nice info. Thanks.

So unlike EQlive, we must choose an Artisan path to follow and cannot change later on? So if I intially pick Craftsman, but at level 20 I discover that I would rather smith, am I out of luck?

Neko~
Once you choose your class and later, your subclass, you'll be locked into those. Of course it sounds like you'll be able to keep making anything you learned the recipe for before you started to specialize...but that would be low level items and may not be as extensive as people think.

Grei

[Ariadne]

ooooh, nice info :) I can't wait.. now alchemist, or tailor... mmm...

[Deathbane27]

'bout time they gave this site some recognition. :p Thank you for asking the smart questions, Ngreth.

[Karikaru]

w00t good info

now im between provisioner and armorer :/

carpenter sounds kinda gimped though...making furniture..woohoo... if they could make boats then i would be one in a heartbeat

[Hobbun]

Great info, Ngreth. :)

I know it makes sense realistically, but I am a bit worried about the answer to question 2. I understand the need for some reliance on other artisans, but when you are making a suit of armor (as in the article's example) and you need two other artisans to make you pieces for it, that can be a big hassle.

For example, lets say you were making that armor to not only sell, but to also get xp. Which I am sure what most Artisans would be trying to do. Everytime you make suit of it, you will need to track down a Jeweler for the studs and then track down a Tailor for the padding. And as everyone knows, you will need a lot of padding to make just about every kind of plate armor. The only other option is to gather a large inventory of supplies from other artisans that you need for the items you are making. Hopefully our houses can hold a lot of stuff. :)

I have a feeling raising artisan levels is going to be very slow because of the interdependence. Slower than just going out and killing something for xp (adventurer side). Because not only do you have to go through the steps of crafting the item (Which I hear will take time, no drop and click), you also have to collect the supplies. Now lets say you do keep a large stash of supplies (crafted from other Artisans) for crafting. You are making that armor and you run out of leather padding. Darnit, I need to find a Tailor, but there doesn't seem to be one on. I can't gain anymore xp at the moment making this armor. Yes, you could go to another item to make since I am sure its not only one item you can gain xp on at any certain time. However, if a lot of crafted goods require interdependance, then you may have that problem all over again.

I still have faith though in playing an artisan, though. It all sounds very exciting and I certainly don't have all the information, so I could be completely off base. I am just a bit concerned from the information I have been given. But we'll see. :)

[Homeslice513]

Awesome news :)

And just to add on to the last post, I think the interdependency of artisans will be a good thing myself. It adds to some of the socialness of getting to know one another. I am hoping that most things can be in stacks so you can get a bunch at a time otherwise having to find someone constantly would be crappy. But in SWG, I was used to getting bulk orders of armor components and then not hearing anything for awhile and when they knew they would need them in a couple days, they would just let me know they would like to place another order to have the stock.

Also, according to the first question though is that an artisan can level independently from quests and working for their shops so more than likely the components of other artisans are for higher quality sellable goods.

I hope I made some sense here also because I am so tired right now and just kind of rambled on :)

I just loved getting this new tidbit of info :D

[Glendal]

Well Hobbun, I dont have much more info on trade skills than you do, but there are afew things I noticed that might set you at ease. As far as depending on other crafters, I dont think thats going to be much of a problem. If you notice, any other type of crafter you might depend on is from the same tree as you. For example, lets say your a armorer (from the outfitter tree) working on a suit of platemail. Your going to be able to make all the pieces, hinges, and joints, but you might be worried about that leather/cloth padding you think you'll have to get from a tailor. Well before you decided to become a armorer you where an outfitter, "the outfitter makes metal weapons and armor, as well as leather and cloth armor." so theres no need to track down a tailor, you'll still have those old basic recipies.

As far as artisan exp goes, theres alot more than crafting you can do to get crafting exp. I can't remember what website I saw ther interview on, but I remember mention of all sorts of crafter quests that will yield some cash to craft with and exp, and jsut strait crafter exp. There where examples ranging from running erands for NPCs to filling crafting orders for them. I think I can confidently say that its not going to be adventurer exp :)

[Ngreth Thergn]

Great info, Ngreth. :)

For example, lets say you were making that armor to not only sell, but to also get xp. Which I am sure what most Artisans would be trying to do. Everytime you make suit of it, you will need to track down a Jeweler for the studs and then track down a Tailor for the padding. And as everyone knows, you will need a lot of padding to make just about every kind of plate armor. The only other option is to gather a large inventory of supplies from other artisans that you need for the items you are making. Hopefully our houses can hold a lot of stuff. :)


Despite what he said, there has also been indications that artisans can make most anything... but a specialist is going to make BETTER thing in his specialty. So for SKILLUPS you will probably be able to make you own padding (say "simple cloth padding") and your own studs (wrought iron studs), and you will make an item, but it may NOT be sellable quality, or not sell for much more than your costs (hey it was an item you were using to train yourself, what do you expect! it is not your best work!) ... but when you are making that UBER armor from the dragon scale, you will want to get a tailor to make you the High Quality silk lined padding, using their best skills, get the jewler to make the high quality adamantite gemmed studs, using his special skills, then you make the best armor plates you can make using your special skills, then again with your special skills, put all the pieces together to make the uber piece of dragon armor.

At least this is what it sounds like.

[Karikaru]

the thing that sucks about interdependance is that you have to raise this money somehow to buy all these components and then you make the item and if it comes out bad or theres some critical error you end up barely making ends meet. in SWG it was a pain too to have to track people down to find the part your looking for. To make money you have to make a lot of something or very high quality, so you have to find like a bunch of crates of a component for a factory run or something which took finding someone willing and then paying a lot

[Bawang]

This article has been translated into French and posted here:

http://forums.mondespersistants.com/showthread.php?t=32549

[Atlock Darkhand]

This is the kind of posts that I look for pre-release... and it is great info... keep them coming please!

[Bawang]

This article has been translated into Spanish and posted here:

http://usuarios.lycos.es/norrath/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=146&sid=e10d0ce87b7edf0e67088a6aed26945b

[Glendal]

With reguards to purchasing parts from other crafters, thats why we need to have a bit of a artisan conspiracy. If all artisans would be willing to sell to each other at wholesale, or close to it just as far as components go there will be better items (weapons, armor, bows,...couches) out there faster. We're all going to be tiwana durt farmer poor for awhile until we can start making those high demand items. Rather you like to be able to craft, you do it for in game cash, or just like to be able to outfit your buddies your still going to need some plat to keep that forge roaring. So lets all help each other out huh?

[Krazick]

Hobbun's comments causes me to cringe once again about the general desire for people to essentially "Solo" play these multi-player games. The feeling that the only way to succeed and be "good" is to do it yourself, and be super-uber and "god-like".

If you look at many of these massive multi-player games they are designed to work better when people group together, bringing different abilities to the group and succeed where by themselves they have no chance of success.

Looking at EQ there is the "holy trinity" of the healer-tank-slower group with additional characters being supplamentary. With EQ II they are trying to bring the capability of Artisans (generic creator of items) to become inter-dependent so get people to interact with each other. Buy and sell items...

There are some drawbacks to this:

1. Scammers (ie griefers that will offer you one thing for 100 plat, and sell you something else for that 100 plat that is worth only 1 plat)
2. Limited Storage ... You need studs, padding, and plate to make an armor piece... but you don't have space to 50 different types of studs, 20 different types of padding, 30 different types of plate... etc....
3. Demand for Items ... Would making jeweled studs for armor only be useful for armor, or would they also be useful for leather/silk pieces... would they be of value (useable in) decorative furniture pieces? Is a carpenter's products sellable to other artisans? Would each specialty class have products desireable by adventuring classes? would those products all require inter-artisan class support?
4. Availability of components... How much time is required to find other player characters of different artisan specialy classes that can, much less be willing to, make the components you need?

How many players are going to get multiple accounts to be able to have an Artisan Specialty Class for each of the 9?

[Ngreth Thergn]

I will be asking them more questions.... I just want to give them some time to code more before I ask them again to take time away from coding to answer questions :)

[Autum]

Great Stuff Ngreth, Ty

[Sunlar]

What Autum said. very good questions Ngreth!!

[Homeslice513]

I will be asking them more questions.... I just want to give them some time to code more before I ask them again to take time away from coding to answer questions :)

So very good to hear :)

Also I know you will ask what we all want to know :D

[Brax]

As a Gnome-Fan I have to ask

what about tinkering ?

[Grei]

As a Gnome-Fan I have to ask

what about tinkering ?
Although there's been alot of changes recently, it does not sound like they've changed their stance on the cultural tradeskills yet. So no tinkering at launch...but who knows how things will expand with the expansions.

Grei

[garlaen]

On MMORPG.COM's writeup on tradeskills, SOE states that as you improve your faction with your local workshop, you gain the ability to purchase general items like studs and padding from the NPCs. They would not be as good of quality as those crafted from a player (I'm assuming that's based on the player using better ingredients/higher skill), but could be used in recipes to advance your skill. The entire article can be read here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?sw=1152&sh=864&setview=features&loadFeature=1&gameID=2/

Gar (not affiliated with mmorpg)

[Ngreth Thergn]

They have already said there are no plans for tinkering. Of course plans can change, but for now... no tinkering. (basic reason *could* be that the current sytem does not allow well for racial/class specific tradeskills. Plus, it does not fit the ARAC system they are working on)

[SirTower]

there could still be tinkering recipies in game, just not a tinkering class. you'd imagine at least a few recipies would survive the shattering. Personally, I can see Jewelcrafters making things like small clockwork birds and compasses/pocketwatches. I mean jewelers do that in RL, so its not that much of a stretch.

[Artulo]

From the interview it appears as though you will be able to choose an adventurer AND a tradeskill class and advance in both separately if you so wish?

[Ngreth Thergn]

From the interview it appears as though you will be able to choose an adventurer AND a tradeskill class and advance in both separately if you so wish?

correct. But just ONE of each per character.

[Artulo]

Same here. From what I originally read it appeared as though the artisans were going to be a new character class and if you choose that, you could not go adventuring.

From what I have read in this thread it appears that you chose one of each and you advance in each independently; with the only advantage to gaining levels adventuring is that you will likely get access to some of the rarer drops you need for the real good items.

[Vampero]

Great info thanks!!!

[Kahlmer]

carpenter sounds kinda gimped though...making furniture..woohoo... if they could make boats then i would be one in a heartbeat

With player housing though...who is not going to want furniture for their house? :D I actually think carpenters' services will be in high demand.

[Karikaru]

With player housing though...who is not going to want furniture for their house? :D I actually think carpenters' services will be in high demand.


hard to say, with instanced housing you sorta have to know where your going to get to a particular persons house right? so its not like your going to have your house on display 24/7 like in SWG

ya i think they will get by but i doubt it will be anything near like SWG architects who were making millions a week.

[khalysta]

hard to say, with instanced housing you sorta have to know where your going to get to a particular persons house right? so its not like your going to have your house on display 24/7 like in SWG

ya i think they will get by but i doubt it will be anything near like SWG architects who were making millions a week.

Your friends will know where you are. You give them permission to enter and knowing the area you live in they just need to seek out the apartment housing and then choose to enter your place. Most people I would imagine live in the guild halls though so your guild members will definitely know where your apartment is.

[Inyidd]

Given what I've seen in other MMORPGs with regards to furniture, I think making it should be at least slightly profitable.

--Inyidd

[garlaen]

When you set yourself up in merchant or consignment mode, you do so in your house. It then locks your house down so people can't move/take anything, but opens the door up to let anyone in (you are still connected/logged in). So, if someone actually wants to come to you to buy your goods, they would see your house.

Gar

[Glendal]

From what I've read there wont be any race spacific recipies on release, and I'm pretty sure that goes with tinkering as well. If they do add tinkering, it will probably be a school of crafting unto itself.

[Niami DenMother]

With player housing though...who is not going to want furniture for their house? I actually think carpenters' services will be in high demand.

In game after game, players have proven that they love "fluff". Regardless of if it is purely ornamental, or serves some minor functional purpose, if it's fluff, it will be popular. {grins}

Wayyyyyy back in my days in Gemstone III, which I played before EQ was released, we used to see folks mob the specialty fluff vendors/areas - whether it was new dyes for their clothing, custom pins, or, yes, furniture for their homes, folks liked to be able to personalize their online identity.

~Mum, who really misses her old GSIII Ambush Healer pin

[Homeslice513]

I am a fluff lover myself :)

I just didn't get fluffy until SWG. ;)

I only had a short run in EQ and didn't really see much fluff there but you bringing up Gemstones made me think of DragonRealms. I only played for the free month but it was an awesome game. Very detailed and a lot of fun, just so many things I saw in the short time I was there but I sat around the hospital a lot. I loved being an Empath :)

[Enya]

I don't think interdependdency will be "worst" than in EQ - a tailor allready HAD to be a low lvl smith too if he wanted to pass patchwork so we are used to it.

In fact this '"interdependency" could lead to an economy where not just a bunch of subs (like leather padding) but a whole variety of stuff you used only to skill up upon will be in demand.

I would like the idea to really trade and not just bazaar subcomponents. Traders in EQ never interacted on a large scale and the thought of a kind of artisan community - not just on message boards but on game servers - really intrigues me.

If there'd be artisan guilds in EQ2 I'd be the first to apply for membership :D

[Oakraven]

Its encouraging to know that their is someone who knows Exactly what oil, freshwater and saltwater baths are used for in smithing developing the Crafting system.

As for the "Cultural" issue, their is that odd Reference to Symbiotic armor that Woodelfs make on their main page, My first reaction was that it was probably some kind of racial quest armor, or it could be that each race can make their own Style of armor, but anyone can use it (Ie Dwarfs can make Adamantium armor, High elfs Mytherele, Woodelf symbiotic armor, and so on)

[Hartmania]

One of the main themes behind EQ2 is complete balances between... well every PC. In adventuring, you can solo up to 50, but the best xp will come by grps, which obviously includes dependence on other players. Therefore they felt they needed to make artisans interdependent to uphold the balance that will make the game great. It would be silly for an artisan to be able to "solo" at a much higher rate than an adventurer might. Excellent idea imo.

Hartmania

[Grei]

One of the main themes behind EQ2 is complete balances between... well every PC. In adventuring, you can solo up to 50, but the best xp will come by grps, which obviously includes dependence on other players. Therefore they felt they needed to make artisans interdependent to uphold the balance that will make the game great. It would be silly for an artisan to be able to "solo" at a much higher rate than an adventurer might. Excellent idea imo.

Hartmania
Even odds, Adventurers will still level far faster than Artisans and by the time an Artisan reaches level 50, Adventurers probably won't be wanting too much from Artisans for finding other sources. It's the way things usually go, unless you make crafting too easy...in which case you devalue crafting too much.

Grei

[nomoreverquestoo]

"...introduces much more interdependency between professions.."

Say goodbye to your independent tradeskill solitaire. There is going to be a lot more bothering and whining to other people for help in completing your tradeskill item!

Botherer tells you, "Hi. Excuse me...you got a minute?"

You tell Botherer, "Maybe. What is it?"

Botherer tells you, "I was wondering if you could make me a Blood Metal Earring of Engagement."

You tell Botherer, "I'm busy...trying to get my corpse in Ssraeszha Temple."

Botherer tells you, "Okay...sorry to bother you...can you let me know when you are done?"

You tell Botherer, "kk"

A few hours later.

Botherer tells you, "Are you done yet?"

You tell Botherer, "Yes, I got my CR done."

Whiner tells you, "Hey, dude. Are you available to make some SOW potions?"

You tell Whiner, "Not atm...busy talking to someone else."

Whiner tells you, "Awww...it will only take a few minutes...I asked you a few days ago and you said you were busy."

Whiner tells you, "How much longer you expect me to wait? I thought we're friends? I helped you a zillion times before...why don't you help me now?"

Botherer tells you, "Are you ready to make me the ring so I can complete set of armor I am trying to sell to some newbie for phat lewt$PP$."

Yada yada yada...

[Unidon]

Does anybody know if there will be a Bazaar or something similar to trade or sell all the necessary components for the higher level tradeskills? I don't look forward to tracking down different people all over the world for a simple set of metal studs.

[javalin]

yes there will be a sort of bazaar there will be no offline trading you must seel from w/i your house while connected to the game
there will also be black market trading where you pay a little more for a product from the opossing city also you can buy from the npc who acts as broker but you pay a fee there as well cheapest way is to find the item you want then locate the person in there house and buy direct from them\

at least this is what i understand from reading sonys main boards

[Homeslice513]

As a Gnome-Fan I have to ask

what about tinkering ?

Not in the game as of yet and also I don't know if they consider this a racial advantage so to speak and won't have it just for gnomes if at all :)

[smawlfry]

this system seems a little too much like RL... I work all day, I don't want to have to come home and 'run my business'.

so sell from your HOUSE while still online... I guess once you find a supplier it won't be so bad, BUT making the initial contacts will suck with the only other options being buy sub-par components from a vendor or in small amounts from the 'black market'. ie; in SWG there was a price cap which limited the items listed on the terminals to trinkets and single items for the most part.

I can see why they are following the SWG tradeskill system - but really... I do tradeskills to get AWAY from the flocks of people bothering me, and besides, I can't woodwork in RL to save my life, might as well cyber-hobby!

in SWG I found while a lot of people started tradeskilling most dropped it because of the interdependancy thing... (the market was still flooded with items - say NO to factories and auto looping macros) so when I logged on with "tailor" as my class title I was flooded by /tells so often I had to reroll a new character...

I dunno... EQII I will play, tradeskills I would like to do... but not if it mirrors SWG... the skill up/creation system looks good... but no house vendors dammut! /bazaar or offline vendors (in a central location - not a house bot) with no $$$ cap

[EQ1 Player]

Honestly, I play EQ for the tradeskills. I am taken aback a little that sony would mirror a system to EQ that makes one choose a single skill to focus on. :confused: I love to do different things with my character, and honestly only have three characters total. All of them know how to bake, I think it essential to be able to cook for oneself, and frankly enjoy it. If we can have houses in EQ2, why can't we cook our own meals if we have decided to make arrows?
Also, the old system was structured plenty well. My ranger, who is working towards a master fletchership will eventually also be skilled to make his own arrowheads. Instead of choosing to pay for them, I am willing to put forth the time on this character to train two tradeskills, which should be allowed in my opinion. Both of these in addition to training him to be able to feed himself whatever meal he wants after going home.
So in short, the tradeskill system is probably the one reason that I have not gotten EQ2, I will have the system to run it in a week, but I think I'll just plug along on my old characters for now.

On a second note, I was wondering if in EQ2, does the house setup allow you to put anything in the house and have it visibly rendered. So, instead of having a bank, one could keep your cooking gear at home in the kitchen, etc? Also, does the rogue class still exist, and do they allow people to sligh-of-hand someone elses stuff from another house?

Thanks for any answers on the latter, and maybe one day they'll realize that tradeskills arent a given, and if we want to give effort to make more than one we should be able to... It should be extra hard as in EQ2 we'll have to build reputation in TWO shops...

[Ngreth Thergn]

On a second note, I was wondering if in EQ2, does the house setup allow you to put anything in the house and have it visibly rendered. So, instead of having a bank, one could keep your cooking gear at home in the kitchen, etc? Also, does the rogue class still exist, and do they allow people to sligh-of-hand someone elses stuff from another house?



well... I can answer at least part of it. So far, SOE stated that you cannot use a house for storage, you can only put items designated as furniture in the house.

As for if they have furniture that looks like tradeskill tiems, SOE has said nothing about that.

I already sent in the questions, so I would have to include these on a later questionaire.

[Flendon]

making the initial contacts will suck with the only other options being buy sub-par components from a vendor or in small amounts from the 'black market'
It has been stated that the vendor items will be plenty good enough for you to practice your skillups and still make a small profit. You just aren't going to make the Phat Lewts off of it. By the time you are advanced enough where this will even make a difference though (lvl 20+ where you choose your subclass) you should have had the time to make the connections.

If we can have houses in EQ2, why can't we cook our own meals if we have decided to make arrows?
As your character will start out as an artisan he will have access to basic recipes of various types. This will almost certinly include food and drinks. The difference is that after you choose your subclass you are basically working as a master in that field. Many master blacksmiths can surely cook themeselves up a decent meal. How many do you know that have the freetime to learn to cook gourmet meals though? This is simply keeping in line with the concept of devoting yourself fully to your art.

Just my 2cp

[Kragmire]

Couple of thoughts.

First, the "scribe" class is going to be interesting. Scrolls were one thing that Sony/Verant were adamant were never going to be in EQ1. Will they really allow people to carry scrolls to allow cross-class casting? From the following quotes, it sounds more like scrolls will allow bonuses to spells and combat skills...
"The scholar deals in spell upgrades, combat art upgrades, jewelry, talismans, potions, and poisons", and
"the sage, who makes combat art and spell scrolls"
This sounds like an incredibly tough thing to balance. In order to make the scribe valuable, the scrolls have to have a meaningful impact. Yet they cannot be so valuable that you cannot adventure without them. Reminds me a little of alchemy in EQ1 - they had to nerf the impact of potions to the point that only the strongest were of any value, and pricing required that they be used only very very rarely. As contrasted to jewelers or smiths, who would make an item for the same amount as a potion, and it would have lasting and important impact for days of adventuring (until a character leveled beyond the point where player-made items could provide an edge).

Second, I hope they don't price the "brokers" out of the market. In my opinion, they should be almost free. I'm surprised that Sony even bothers to allow a vendor function out of your house when you're online - what is the benefit of that versus just running around screaming "studs for sale". The only reason you would even WANT to bother would be if (1) you were roleplaying or (2) the broker was really expensive. If they make the brokers cheap and ubiquitous, it would be MUCH easier - a single source shop where you could run up to dump all your trade goods and pick up supplies. A fun value-add would be to allow you to buy "advertising" at the broker - perhaps he would "say" some message like "Kragmire's fine leather goods now on sale" if you paid a certain bonus. You could also add a commodities market if you wanted to get really sexy - allow you to put not only sell offers but BUY offers. For example, "buy up to 10,000 studs for any price of 5 gold or less". If you were to do this, whether you were online or not, the studs would be purchased and placed in your "broker" account as not for sale items (you would make it cash-based so the cash would have to be available ahead of time). This would be a fast and convenient method of bringing true supply and demand to trade skill pricing.

Finally, I hope ALL housing in the game is virtual - i.e. through "apartment buildings" and "guild halls" that you rent space in (with many other players). Too many bad memories of Ultima Online where housing cluttered the world and removed any vestiges of suspension of disbelief. Either that, or they make a fixed number of housing units in the world, and they allow supply and demand to dictate pricing so that only people that really really want a house get one. When you think about all the unused rooms / floors in EQ1 cities, there will probably be plenty of space regardless of which path they want to go down. Anything but allowing people to "build" their own housing.

[Ngreth Thergn]

actually... some of this has been answered.

The brokers are JUST a conduit to your in-house vendors. I.E. you open an in house vendor.

Your in house vendor will have items priced at X.
The broker will show all items from all in house vendors in your city at price X + Y
The black market broker will have all items from all in house vendors from both cities at price X + Z where Z > Y.

So a plyer can run to your house, and get the item at X, or save himself a run and get it at X+Y. And if you want something from another city, you gotta do X+Z.

And yes, housing will be Instanced... EXCEPT for a FEW available guild houses. The Guild houses will have to be earned and continually paid for (weekly fee) by earning prestige points (running quests for the city)

There has been alot of public outcry about the in house vendors (you ahve to be online in trading mode... not a very fun way to be...) so we will see if anything changes.

[Flendon]

I like the system the way it is. The house vendoring is just a decentralized bazaar. The brokers will take care of those who are to busy/lazy to go to an individual house. I don't know about other servers, but on Zeb PoK is the central gathering point. The bazaar is 2 zones away and on my crappy comp that means around 5 minutes each way. With the broker your items are immeadiatly at hand. To me at least that is an improvement. Also you can allow your friends to setup trader in your house or anyone part of a guild that possesses a guildhouse can setup there. This will create several small to large bazaars like medevil cities, unlike the one huge bazaar of EQ1.

As for the offline vendoring that would be nice. So would being able to skillup while offline. It isn't a neccesity and the flood of the market would just be too great. As is I have a cable modem and can leave my trader up whenever I'm not playing my one and only account. Or if you care that much do what some do and get a second account. For those without broadband...
/shakes head
Well the first time I had to zone or enter a room with more than 10 people in it while on dialup I would throw my computer out a window. :eek: Thats just me though. More power to anyone who puts up with it. :cool:

[Kragmire]

You could also add a commodities market if you wanted to get really sexy - allow you to put not only sell offers but BUY offers. For example, "buy up to 10,000 studs for any price of 5 gold or less". If you were to do this, whether you were online or not, the studs would be purchased and placed in your "broker" account as not for sale items (you would make it cash-based so the cash would have to be available ahead of time). This would be a fast and convenient method of bringing true supply and demand to trade skill pricing.

Thanks for the update Ngreth - trying to catch up on all the info. Been away a LONG time...

One other thought about the above idea of being able to post "buy" offers... it would allow you, the trader, to decide if you wanted to spend time that evening crafting, or adventuring. For example, if someone in town has a large standing order for a number of ingredients (bonings, or studs, or similar) you could decide if it was worth your while to create the items. Much nicer than making a bunch of stuff, and then sticking it on a vendor to see whether or not anyone cares. In the same way you could post "buy" offers for rare ingredients off of mob drops, so that someone would know - hey I need to collect spiderling eyes next time I am in "x" zone - Ngreth is paying handsomely.

[Homeslice513]

I also wanted to add on about house Ngreth but Faarwolf or someone posted about there being prestige houses for players as well and not just for guilds :)

So at least a few people may be right in town :D

If my guild isn't then I at least hope I am ;)

[Flendon]

One other thought about the above idea of being able to post "buy" offers... it would allow you, the trader, to decide if you wanted to spend time that evening crafting, or adventuring. For example, if someone in town has a large standing order for a number of ingredients (bonings, or studs, or similar) you could decide if it was worth your while to create the items. Much nicer than making a bunch of stuff, and then sticking it on a vendor to see whether or not anyone cares. In the same way you could post "buy" offers for rare ingredients off of mob drops, so that someone would know - hey I need to collect spiderling eyes next time I am in "x" zone - Ngreth is paying handsomely.

Now this is an idea I like. The EQLive team would never do something like this. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up, but I have more faith in the EQ2 team. Lets keep our fingers crossed on this.

[Drucilla]

The "buy" offers idea I also really like for the reasons posted.

[Grei]

Anything that makes it easier for us to sell our creations without wasting our time is a good idea. ;)

Grei

[Ngreth Thergn]

Now if only we could find out a definitive answer about stats and profession :p

Stats have no effect on tradeskills... Therefore race has no effect on tradeskills either.

[Kole]

Hi all

Just a quick note having just read the entire thread! Would it be an idea to have a listing somewhere of server, name, craft and level? A place that people could put their name down as available for making items. A contact list/advertisement for business. I realise that no one wants to simply go online and make items for another player for hours on end, but I know I certainly wouldn't mind helping another player out if I knew there were others out there that would help me out in return.

It would be a great way of building up contacts etc of true artisans.

Anyway, just my thoughts..

Kole :)

[Ariadne]

Kole - there is currently a thread on the beta forum that people who are over 20 tradeskillers are encouraged to post their details on..

of course, no one is forced to, and I don't know if anyone looks :P

[Zendaken]

...there is currently a thread on the beta forum that people who are over 20 tradeskillers are encouraged to post their details on..

Just posted elsewhere (http://www.mboards.eqtraders.com/eq2/showthread.php?p=3216#post3216) about access to the beta boards. Long and short of it is that everyone in beta may not actually have access to the beta boards.

Zen

[DeWeasel]

Also, the Marketplace section of these forums will serve the purpose of advertising once the game goes live :)

[Terek]

Grat Info thank you all . :) I look forward to release and dumping my two EQ1 accounts. Hopefully I like it enough to do that. :)