Grandmaster Artisan Cooperation

[DeWeasel]

Grand Master Artisan Cooperation

We’ve been touching on this in several threads. I think (and frankly, hope) that the level of cooperation needed between GM artisans to produce truly uber items will be high. Here’s a hypothetical example of how it might go:

1. A fighter wanders into the GM Smith’s shop. He has a red dragon scale, which was his portion of the loot from the latest guild raid. He wants to know if anything valuable can be made with it. The Smith has heard that such items can be turned into fire-resistant shields, but he has never done this.

2. The Smith makes the trip across town to his friend the GM Sage and explains his need for instructions on how to make such a shield. After performing some sagery (maybe research, a mini-quest for a recipe from an NPC, or something), the Sage comes back with a recipe requiring the scale, two strips of pristine dragon hide (for straps), four adamantium studs (to hold said straps), a hoop of adamantium (the shield’s outer ring), a special temper for the scale, and some supreme-quality leather padding.

3. List in hand, the Smith contacts a GM Crafter for some padding and straps and a GM Alchemist for the temper. He then does his own forge-work to put everything together, then presents his customer with a shiny new Dragonscale Shield of Uberness.

Just some thoughts. I believe requiring artisans to work together like this will facilitate keeping the artisan community busy and thriving. What does everybody else think?

[Grei]

Since I've been probably the one posting the most on such things, yes that's kind of what I'm expecting the end game to be like for Artisans. :) It just seems to be a natural 'next step' from working for an NPC shop--you're already cooperating with the NPCs, why not with the players in your shop as well?

I'm still waiting to find out whether each shop will be trade specific, or whether they'll be consisting of several trades. Of course the breakdown could be based on the final product, such as a shop specializing in armor would have Smiths and Crafters.

Grei

[Homeslice513]

I am hoping that it goes this way as well.

That is one of the things I liked in SWG was that some products you created needed components that another profession made, maybe even two professions components.

I think the artisans will have a community in theirselves as well as among guilds and families.

This is one of my main reasons for being a crafter. To meet new people, to socialize, to make them and their homes look good :)

[Homeslice513]

I also wanted to add in that I am sure there will be intermingling way before master as well or should be. Who wants to craft to 50 alone :(

[DeWeasel]

I also wanted to add in that I am sure there will be intermingling way before master as well or should be. Who wants to craft to 50 alone :(

I absolutely agree

[Grei]

I would imagine that there'll be plenty of socializing, especially in whatever NPC shop you choose to align yourself with.

I personally plan on finding a shop that's in a good location, scenery-wise. I don't care if it's the largest, the smallest, the most 'uber' or the 'poorest'. I want to work someplace that I'll enjoy stepping out of on break, just like I want to live someplace that I'll enjoy coming home to. :)

I'm pretty selective, aren't I? :)

Grei

[Ngreth Thergn]

(just playing devils advocate... I love the idea of required cooperation like this)

The problem I see is that the player with the dragon scale wants their reward NOW, not in a (posible) few days when you have done the mass coordinating required.

Other than that little niggly... sounds like a great idea!

[Grei]

(just playing devils advocate... I love the idea of required cooperation like this)

The problem I see is that the player with the dragon scale wants their reward NOW, not in a (posible) few days when you have done the mass coordinating required.

Other than that little niggly... sounds like a great idea!
People who are truely into crafting like the social aspect of cooperation.

Sadly though, most games in the past have catered to the 'get it done now' and/or 'get rich quick' mentalities so that it was possible to do everything all by yourself (even in SWG, it was possible to take on most, if not all, skills required to support your chosen profession, though in some cases you weren't as good as someone who specialized in the profession those skills came from). As long as there ends up being a way to transfer stuff between characters on an account, I think these type of people will not be complaining too much--if they even stay around EQ2 with as difficult as crafting is likely to be.

Personally, as long as cooperation doesn't end up gating anything, then it'll be the ideal state of crafting.

Grei

[Ngreth Thergn]

I more meant the adventurer that comes to you with the scale. He may not want to hear "come back to me in a few days and I will have it" even though that is much more realistic :)

[Grei]

Ideally it'll only be the first few times that such a scale drops that it'll take a long time to make into something. And I suspect everyone is going to have to learn to be patient--EQ2 won't be into immediate gratification like EQLive was.

Heck, I don't think I ever saw anything saying that crafters will be able to make anything without knowing the recipe for it. Which means you can't expect to make Misty Thicket Picnic Baskets at level 1...even though in EQLive you could try and try (and try and try--probably never succeed, but you could still try it), even if you knew the ingredients and how to make each step based on research from the web. You will have to have the recipe either shared with you in game, or quested/researched, or earned through leveling.

At least that's what my impression of how things will be...

Grei

[Homeslice513]

The thing is though if every crafter tells that adventurer sure just give me a few days then they would have to wait it out.

This were an artisans reputation comes into play.

This is also part of the reason I became a fan of single character servers. It pretty much kept you from screwing someone and then just making another character to disappear too.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Yup. I agree :) I was just playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion :)

[SirTower]

I have a question.....
whats a niggly?

[Grei]

I have a question.....
whats a niggly?
Something larger than a nuisance and smaller than an annoyance.

It's the niggly details that usually bite you in the bum.

Grei

[Hobbun]

I had actually wrote up a response to this in another thread under "Multiple Tradeskills" under the General Forum. Here was my response:

For the example you use, Grei, I really hope they don't split the pieces of the armor like that. Meaning, if am a smith and smiths are able to make armor, I want to be able to make all the pieces required for that armor at the same level. Not be able to make the breastplate piece, but have to go to a Crafter to get high quality straps.

If they want split up crafter making the weapons and smiths making the armor or even the crafters making leather type armor/weapons and smiths making any metal armor/weapons, I have no problem with that. But for whatever artisan path I choose, if I put my time and effort into it, I want to be able to make the whole item (all the components required for the item) for whatever class it fall under at the same quality. Not be like: "Oh, I'm sorry, I made you the breastplate, legplate and armplate pieces at really high quality, but if you want the straps for the armor at that quality, you need to go to a Crafter." It may sound more realistic in that manner but we have had the realism vs. gameplay discussion many times in the EQ2 official forums and there is only so far you should go in realism. I think it would be just too annoying in the end.

I want to add something to this after reading the Grandmaster Artisan Thread. For a situation like that, I am all for it. To make the end all, uber items I completely agree it would be neat for artisans to combine their abilities to make the items. The "uber" items I would be referring to is akin to reactivating a portal, or building a structure of some kind or even making an epic weapon. Now that would be awesome.

But not in the normal every day items or for even the high end, every day armor/weapons. You should be able to make all of the pieces involved with those and at the same quality level. But again, that is just my opinion.



After reading this thread and thinking about it some more, I don't think it as much as a problem as I orginially thought. In using the "strap" example, you could go to a Crafter and have him make up up a decent amount of them in advance. Build up a stock of them like companies do in real life. Originally, I was thinking it along the lines of how Ngreth brought it up. Ok, you make some armor but you need the straps, have to go talk to the Crafter. "May be a few days for your armor. I have to get the straps from a crafter. Sorry." Now, THAT would be annoying. Not only for the artisan, but also for the adventurer.

Now in the strap example, as long as you keep a stock of them, I don't see a problem with it. But lets go along with Grei's original jewelcrafting example multiple artisans being included. To make it worthwhile, for me at least, to be a jewelcraft, you would need some serious space to keep a stock of components from all the different artisans before making the finished product. Because if each ring is composed from that many components from that many different artisans, its not something I will want to do often considering the time involved in having to track down all the other artisans. I will want to be able to build up a large stock. Jewelcrafting for me then, may not be worthwhile because of how cumbersome it would be in gathering the supplies and maybe shortage on space.

I guess what I'm saying in the end is I like this idea as long as the I am able to keep a decent stock of components that are needed from the other artisans, I don't a have a problem with it and its actually a good idea for social interaction. But if I have to go running to another artisan type every time I am making an item, that is just too much.

[Homeslice513]

Yeah that would be too much to have to find someone everytime you crafted but I could totally see getting stockpiles of stuff

There will be large chests to make that have 32 spaces :)

[Grei]

Yeah that would be too much to have to find someone everytime you crafted but I could totally see getting stockpiles of stuff

There will be large chests to make that have 32 spaces :)
Ahhh yes, the Chests of Doom that I had jokingly pointed out on the official forums will probably be the death of any artisan who crafts one. :) Depending on how heavy they are, anyway...and how strong the artisan is...and whether they're smart enough to get out from underneath the completed chest before being crushed. :)

Still, there'll be some good business in chests to for the first month or so as all of the EQLive junkies try to get their storage up to what they're used to.

Grei

[Gimfalisette]

I have heard people speculating about being able to put private crafting tools (e.g. a forge) in their personal residences, and I really hope that's not possible because it would drastically cut down on the social possibilities of being a crafter. Adventuring has its own inherent social mechanic, grouping, which gives better xp and better ability to handle killing stuff, PLUS (hopefully) fun sociability. So I really hope that the social aspects of crafting are attended to as well...I envision hanging out in the back of the shop with all the other top crafters of my trade, and roleplaying jealousies, competition, and of course cooperation :D

(Not to mention that I think having a FORGE in an instanced apartment would be really dumb from a realism standpoint. "Oh, sorry Mr. Landlord, I didn't mean to burn down the building AGAIN...")

[Grei]

About the only piece of crafting info we have is that you'll be able to put crafting tools in your own home. I will have to dig through the Moorgard Index to find it, but I believe that was where I read it when I first got fired up about EQ2 back in May.

I might have whatever is needed for my primary occupation in my home to handle those 'quick' jobs, but for the most part I'll be in whatever shop I end up aligning with. Be more fun there than hidden away in my home...unless someone annoys me. :)

Grei