Could this be what the class needs (on test now)?

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

- Crafters can use new recipes to make enchanted weapons, armor, and items!
- Evaluate the potency of weapons easily with the new Damage Rating!

and also

*** New Harvested Items and Recipes ***

- There are new types of uncommon harvested items to be found. They can be gathered from existing harvesting nodes and are identified as glowing, sparkling, glimmering, or luminous depending on their level range.
- New recipe books are available for purchase at the camps of the Hand of Marr and Brethren of Night. Those wishing to buy the books will need to first earn favor with the merchants.
- Using these new recipes and new harvested items, Alchemists can create magical extracts that other crafters can use to make new items or enhance existing goods.
- Armorers and Tailors can combine the magical extract with certain pieces of pristine armor and make new types of enchanted armor. When the wearer is attacked, chest pieces have a chance to proc a heal-over-time spell and leggings have the chance to proc a damage spell.
- Weaponsmiths and Woodworkers can combine the magical extract with certain types of pristine weapons and make new types of enchanted weapons. These weapons have the chance to proc a damage spell in combat.
- Woodworkers can combine the magical extract with certain types of pristine shields and make new types of enchanted shields that have a chance to proc a damage spell during combat. They can also use the magical extract to infuse wands with an activated damage spell.
- Tailors can use the magical extract to create hex dolls that cast a detrimental effect on an enemy. The dolls also provide a minor stat buff to the user.
- Jewelers can combine the magical extract with certain types of pristine rings and make new types of enchanted rings that provide activated buffs to strength, agility, wisdom, intelligence, or stamina.
- For weapons, armor, and shields, the quality level of the creation process determines the potency of the magical effect attached to the item. All quality levels of enchanted weapons, armor, and shields retain the stats of the pristine item used to make them.
If this goes through to live will it be what we have been clamouring for?

[Votary]

As near as I can tell it also puts the complete reliance back on Alchemists....they're the only ones that can make the interim step we will need to enchant items. Cash cow once again for them.

-Votary

[kieroth_whiteleaf]

If they follow previous behavior (Not that they necessarily will, just saying 'if') then the subcombine will be able to be made by other classes.

On the other side of that - the weapon recipes require an alchemist *AND* a weaponsmith. I can see the alchemists possibly complaining that they don't have any finished products to sell, unlike the other classes.

Really, the craftsman and sages are the ones that ought to be complaining. Doesn't appear they get anything new.

SFG

[Mithas]

The patch notes mention Alchemist specifically to make the enchantment extracts, so it will likely be just them that can make it:

- Using these new recipes and new harvested items, Alchemists can create magical extracts that other crafters can use to make new items or enhance existing goods.

I don't think that's really a bad thing though. They really do need something that only they can make that is desirable. I also believe there is enough competition that prices will not be driven through the roof. It's not like the dependency on WORTS where you needed them to craft anything. Regular skilling up will still be done with normal finished goods, and you will only buy extracts to enchant some of your items for sale to the player market. It will be interesting to see just how uncommon the new harvests will be though.

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

I don't think that's really a bad thing though. They really do need something that only they can make that is desirableUm Warrior abilities are not enough?

But even if they are not, if these are as rare as 'rare' weapons are then it probably will not matter a whole lot, especially if these are going to come in 4 quality flavors of 'enhancement raw'.

[Mithas]

Um Warrior abilities are not enough?


Not really, I have a difficult time selling them, so far in all tiers up to 4. Plus there are a lot of Adept 1's that cover the most used fighter skills, at least I know there are for my class of Guardian. Also, as was mentioned in another thread, many fighters spend there disposable income on armor and weapon upgrades and leave the skill upgrades for last. When I offered to make skill App IV's for fighters in my guild, there were at least 3 or 4 between level 20 and 35 that I had to go back to tier 1 because they had not bothered to upgrade them and probably wouldn't have if I didn't offer them for free. They also didn't want upgrades for all of their abilities, just 4 or 5, even though they were free cause they said they didn't need them or already had Adepts. There isn't as much visible difference in upgrading fighter skills as opposed to say DD or heal spells.

[Korsis]

Um Warrior abilities are not enough?
Well I really don't want to get into that argument again, but keep in mind sages make abilities for twice as many classes as alchemists, and look at how happy they were before the "independence day" patch.

But even if they are not, if these are as rare as 'rare' weapons are then it probably will not matter a whole lot, especially if these are going to come in 4 quality flavors of 'enhancement raw'.
My understanding is that these are supposed to be "uncommon." My impression/suspicion is that they will be common enough to be a reliable source of income, but rare enough that they will never become the bread-and-butter of leveling. That way alchemists can fill the "middle-man" role that they were originally supposed to have, without having power over the other crafters' ability to level.

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

Well I really don't want to get into that argument again, but keep in mind sages make abilities for twice as many classes as alchemists, and look at how happy they were before the "independence day" patch. Sorry. I guess I just compare them to us and think that they do good because we are doing so BAD.

As for the warriors in the other posters guild not wanting skill upgrades, /BOGGLE?!

Alchemist: Want some frees skill upgrdes? It will make your abilities better!
warrior: Nah, I prefer to suck.

Got to wonder how many are from EQ 1? I find that too many who played EQ 1 are thinking this game is just like it and they are dead wrong, especially where arts and equipment go.

[kieroth_whiteleaf]

For melee characters (at the lower levels anyways, I'm <25 on all my characters) you simply don't *NEED* the upgrades. I put money into gear (and tradeskilling) first, and if there's any extra I'll throw some into skill upgrades.

For the most part, Adept 1s drop enough to where I get some from either hunting or friendly guildies, so I don't *need* app4s on the remaining skills - many of which I'll outgrow anyways.

Most of my skills (I'm a ranger) are either app1s or adept1s, and I'm consistently in the top 2 in my group for dps (usually #1) - why would I need to upgrade my skills?

For other classes I can definitely see it - priests in particular - but realistically Melee characters are dependent on armor and weapons FAR more than their clicky skills. At least where I am.

SFG

[Korsis]

I agree that it's silly to turn down free upgrades, but I can see where fighters would not care about many of them. As a guardian, quite a few of my abilities are only useful when someone else is tanking. (It's an amazing solution to the lack of stackability in EQ1 tanks--two tanks really is better than one here.) But, I almost always end up main tank. So I would upgrade these if I got the chance, but I wouldn't think too harshly of someone that skipped over them.

Also, there are a few of my abilities that really don't get much better with upgrades. The Entrench/Anchor line is really not worth upgrading except for the sake of completeness. Most of the kick and all of the true strike type attacks are subpar attacks that I only ever use occassionally when soloing and all my "real" attacks happen to be down. I keep all of mine upgraded for just in case, but again, I wouldn't think too harshly of someone that didn't.

Melee characters are dependent on armor and weapons FAR more than their clicky skills. At least where I am.
Um, where are you? I would maybe buy that for fighter types, but the scout types I know do perhaps 20-30% of their damage from melee, and all the rest from combat abilities or spells. In fact, if we just melee and don't use any abilities, I usually outdamage scouts.

(Now some abilities being unimportant, I can totally buy that. But I don't think that in general gear is more important than abilities for DPS.)

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

Um, where are you? I would maybe buy that for fighter types, but the scout types I know do perhaps 20-30% of their damage from melee, and all the rest from combat abilities or spells.Actually it is far more than that. The idea that all your damage is coming from JUST your weapons is so wrong in EQ 2. MOST of your significant damage is being done by your combat abilities.

Go ahead and parse it. Seriously. Do an hour fighting and not touching a combat art and then one normal. You'll be astounded by the difference.

[Herculez]

Actually it is far more than that. The idea that all your damage is coming from JUST your weapons is so wrong in EQ 2. MOST of your significant damage is being done by your combat abilities.

Go ahead and parse it. Seriously. Do an hour fighting and not touching a combat art and then one normal. You'll be astounded by the difference.


As my main character is an assassin, i couldnt agree more. I would say 90-95% of my damage comes from combat arts such as backshot and vladaminn's focused volley (lvl 20 chosen upgrade for open shot). If the dmg isnt coming from my bow abilities, then it is coming from poison which seems to proc more often on activated abilities anyway, atleast as far as i have seen. I do also have a fighter and can understand why fighter types wouldnt want/need to upgrade all their abilities, but as a scout i try and have the adept 1's atleast a full lvl before i can actually scribe them.

[Aesbar]

The problem with the fighter arts is that some are more important than others (like taunt arts are my main priority), and also there is no "bump" between Apprentice and Adept (never even seen a Master). I'm happy but also sad that they finally implemented the actual art data when examining on the broker. Turns out that I won't pay 2 gold for +11 Hate generated (from 253 to 264). If they put Adepts on a higher tier, it might be worth it. Maybe have them skip 5 levels between App4 and Adept1? Looks like it all just goes in a linear fashion.