Which recipes require pristine primary components

[Maxym]

Hi all -

Okay, so as most of us have discovered, the saving grace of carpentry is that we can make pristine boxes out of crude planed lumber. Which is great because those T2 fletching buffs we have are not just shoddy and ineffectual, they're tedious.

But not all recipes are so forgiving! Several times I've casually fired up a recipe with a less-than-perfect primary ingredient and found that pristine is not a possibility. Unfortunately, I haven't been good about keeping track of such recipes. Here's my best guess, but I'd really appreciate corrections or comments from other carpenters:

Woodworking-based final combines make pristine from crude primary components.

Sewing table-based final combines do not.

Forge-based final combines make pristine from crude primary components.

Any tier 1 final combines do not.

Is this right? Please help me out before I turn my oak roots into shaped cloth portraits and rugs.

[Liandra]

Hi all -

Okay, so as most of us have discovered, the saving grace of carpentry is that we can make pristine boxes out of crude planed lumber. Which is great because those T2 fletching buffs we have are not just shoddy and ineffectual, they're tedious.

But not all recipes are so forgiving! Several times I've casually fired up a recipe with a less-than-perfect primary ingredient and found that pristine is not a possibility. Unfortunately, I haven't been good about keeping track of such recipes. Here's my best guess, but I'd really appreciate corrections or comments from other carpenters:

Woodworking-based final combines make pristine from crude primary components.

Sewing table-based final combines do not.

Forge-based final combines make pristine from crude primary components.

Any tier 1 final combines do not.

Is this right? Please help me out before I turn my oak roots into shaped cloth portraits and rugs.

If you are making pristine products from Non-Pristine primary ingredients then this is a bug. The maximum lvl of your result should be the same as the lvl of your primary component. Crude Primary should only make a Crude product.

Hopefully someone has /bug'd it and it should be fixed at some point.

[Latormenta]

To answer Maxim, I believe every wood carpentry recipe does this. While there are some Tier 3 recipes I haven't tried, I'm pretty sure I've actually made everything in the standard recipe books pristine from less than pristine wood after I discovered this in my 20s.

At least some of the metalworking recipes do this as well. I'm pretty sure steel plates did not. I remember having having them to shaped to get pristine, as they suffered from the same bug as armorers experienced. However, feysteel plates seem to go to pristine from any quality.

None of the cloth recipes I've encountered will do this. I have to give my cloth to a tailor to be processed if I want pristine reliably (though even at Tier 5 I can get pristine cloth 10-15% of the time, which is enough for discovery bonus).

As to Liandra's post, this was /bugged in Beta. It's been /bugged in GA. I've stopped actively bugging new recipes. SOE is aware of how carpentry works and can fix it if they want.

From beta on it was a common bug to be able to get pristine from any quality component. However, for everything but carpentery, this was an odd recipe here and there, quickly fixed by SOE.

For carpentry, it is every wood recipe. Bugs are usually more selective than this. Also, while SOE has fixed other recipes that have this bug, they have fixed not a single carpentry recipe. This leads me to question whether this is a bug or whether it is intentional behavior. Furniture has no game unbalancing potential. Carpenters cannot use sculpting to refine wood. It is at least plausible to me that SOE made it work this way for carpenters on purpose.

In any case, I have never seen a statement from SOE that all recipes must be limited by the quality of their primary component. Adept III scrolls are exceptions to the normal rules of quality progression. There could be other exceptions.

Personally, I'd be happy if they change this, so long they let me refine my primary components (planed lumber, cloth, and metal plates) with sculpting instead of the level-capped skills I have to use today.

[Cavel]

Any combine NOT using the Woodworking bench requires the Primary componant to be Pristine.

They recently "Fixed" the Forges, Armorers were able to use shaped items and craft pristine from them... We got the same benifit... With the fix so goes our ability.

I made some Bronze and Black Iron Sconces this weekend so I can Verify this Non-Pristine in the forge = Non pristine Final.

Cavel

[Latormenta]

I made a mystic feysteel sconce after the change to the plates went in, and I could still get pristine from non-pristine plates. In any case, the Tier 2 recipes are not a good measure. The pristine-from-non-pristine doesn't really kick in till Tier 3.

[Nivisec]

They've done this to a lot items, not just on carpenters (armorers got it for quite a few items as well even if they won't admit it). They had it because they couldn't refine their own items down...For a while they couldn't even make the crude plates :)

Personally I think it is their way of saying, hey we screwed up on not letting you refine your own stuff with your own skills, do this for now.

I don't see them fixing this issue until they allow carpenters to make stuff out of their own skills (at least the wood). If they did, carpenters would just be a even more gimped class.

[MegaRakzum]

im level 27 carp i cant believe i didnt figure this out sooner, ive never really tried to make boxes besides my own cause i got pissed i couldnt make the planed lumber pristine, well last night i banged out a ton of crudes along with the crude sub combines i was already makin at home, took it down to TS and made regular and pristine boxes no problem, wow nice suprise indeed :D

[Niami DenMother]

Until/unless they fix it so that we (yes, my primary is carpenter and proud of it) are able to use our primary sculpting skills on primary subcomponents, instead of having to use skills capped at tier 2, it's not really considered a bug that we can make pristine final furniture from crude parts ... when it's something we logically *should* be able to make ourselves.

This means that:
*All wood finals on the woodworking table don't need pristine ... but paintings, which require cloth that is the bailiwick of tailors, do require pristine
*Rugs, again, require cloth that is the bailiwick of tailors, require pristine
*Metals are a little messed up. In theory, if there's an armorsmith version of the plates, then we're required to have a pristine plate to make a pristine light. Apparently this isn't the case for one or two high-tier rares. We do NOT need pristine for blackened iron, probably because we're the only folks who get a recipe for plates at that tier, and our metalworking stinks. :) (for this same reason, quality matters on the bronze sconce, since everyone's skills are the same for tier 1 stuff)

Hopefully this helps explain what seems to be the method for the madness. :)

~Mum

[Cobble]

tier 3 Steel plates make whatever grade the plate is...shaped plate = shaped item.

i've also noticed today that shaped teak lumber = shaped final teak componet. i am hoping this doesn't apply to the furniture.

[Nivisec]

Any quality lumber has always only produced the same quality of the next combine (crude lumber = planned crude lumber, etc).

Unless you've meant some type of furniture here, then I'll just say hey why not...unless they nerfed cedar and oak too (that's the only wood sellables really in tier 4 and 5 for me) :)

[Latormenta]

I needed to double check this before I posted, but you can get pristine FORGE finished products from non-pristine components, at least tier 4 and 5. I had a workshop task last night to make some fulginate lanterns. I started with a mix of shaped and regular quality plates, and all the combines gave me the opportunity to go to pristine.

Unless my memory is failing (a distinct possibility :)) this is true of every forge finished product I've made recently, including mystic feysteel sconces.

Until recently, it had been my practice to make shaped, regular, and pristine (in that order) of every product to try to get he discovery bonus for each level. I generally specifically start with sub-pristine components for these steps. It is readily apparent when the "shaped" discovery combine will go to pristine.