Making Pristine stroma resin

[dkubicek]

Ok, I have read the posts here for using buffs to help create pristine, but I still am having problems.
I am creating stroma resin so I would like to make pristine as I get 4 at a time then.
I am trying the following and getting pristine about 1 out of 3 tries.
Spam "Analyze, Conceptualize, and Synthesis" to raise durability, wich does not seem to raise it that musch, but it sucks my mana up like mad. Then I spam "Experiment, Reaction, and Theory" to increase progress.

What am I doing wrong.

___________________________________________
Gullan -- Druid/Halfling (14) / Artisan (5) (good)
Phasio -- Human/Crusader (10) / Crusader (10) (good)
Alderon -- Kerra/Sorceror (13) / Scholar (12) (good)
Pegases -- Barbarian/Commoner (2) / Unskilled (1) (good)
All on Unrest server

[Susesska]

When you say you are spamming your countermeasures, are you activating more than one at a time? I generally begin the recipe and immediately hit Theory or Reaction to spur the process, then alternate Theory, Reaction and Experiment with Conceptualize, Synthesis, and Analyze. I nearly always have two countermeasures active at a time, making sure that I don't have two of the same base type active except during a problem. For example, I spam Synthesis the most when I have durability loss, so I refrain from using Reaction except when a Reaction problem occurs, just so I have at least one of my two counters available for a potential problem. With problematic and difficult crafting, I use only the counters that increase durability--constantly rotating them so that two are always active.

I can count the number of times that I have failed to make pristine tempers, dyes, inks and other alchemical compounds on the claws of one hand while using this method. And, those few times that I have made only a regular product, it was because I did not pay attention to my power when I started the recipe. Alchemy is definitely a tiring process that requires a great deal of power. A full bar of power for me usually takes two or three recipe processes, sometimes four, before I must rest to regain power for the next one. I'm a 17 Druid, 19 Scholar.

Going by your signature, it may just be that the difficulty level of the recipe is playing tricks with you. It's a blue recipe for you, as a level 12 Scholar, yes? It's still going to be tricky, but if you're patient and take the time to rest up between your processes, you should be able to show that resin who is boss. Your chemistry skill should increase substantially as you use your durability counters as well, and you'll find that that will make a great difference in your success rate versus pristine.

[Dafydd]

I assume the char your using is.
Alderon -- Kerra/Sorceror (13) / Scholar (12) (good)
Skill is very importants.
So I must ask Is your Skill capped?

Also I would like to point out that if you just now barely made level 12 then you probably need to just level up a bit.

Also are you saying that you Never make pristine? Please better define your trouble.

Are you getting 5 pristines out of 20 tries? or 5 out of 100?

[NerissaGoldenrose]

I think you'll find everyone has their own methods. Here's what I do (in addition to countering events, of course).

I start out using only the buffs that increase progress. I keep at least 2 of them going at all times, preferably all 3, since all they take is power. If my durability dips down to below about 3/4 of the last bar before I fill up my first progress bar, I start hitting my durability buffs, along with fewer progress ones. By the end of the 2nd bar, I let it get down to about 1/2 of the last bar. By the time I get into the last bar, I don't worry too much if it's over about 1/3 of the bar, but start spamming durability if it isn't. (portions of the bar are estimates, as I do it more on a "feels like I'm not gonna make it if I don't do something" basis than a mathematical analysis)

And, of course, be careful not to be in the midst of hitting a hotkey for a buff and have an event pop up under you that requires a different counter. ;) I'm not sure whether it's based in reality, but I tend to hit my buffs right after the numbers fly up from a round, since it *seems* to me that the odds of having an event pop up are less then.

I don't think there's much point to starting with a durability buff, as your durability is already at full when you start. Spam progress until your durability drops a bit, then "twist in" durability until it comes back up to a comfortable level.

I go through LOTS of power that way -- I get about 2 combines per bar of power, I think, but even at 10 & 11, I was making pristines more often than not, and normal when I wasn't paying attention and started a combine at low power.

[mebrhea]

a few things to note:

- SPAM IS BAD. you should never spam buffs unless you're absolutely desperate.
- events always, always come up right after each tick (when the numbers pop up). so never, ever, ever hit a buff right after each tick. wait a second. if no event comes up, then you have enough time to hit 4-5 buffs before the next tick.
- synthesize is a huge power drain, so try not to use it unless you really need that extra durability (only gives 4 more durability than conceptualize, which uses 0 power, or 9 more than analyze, which uses 1/3 the power).
- check out the really long thread in the tradeskill guide forum. it's got a lot of excellent hard number data.

[Izarek]

Alchemy is amoung the most power intensive since all of its buffs use power. So power conservation is important. So is power regeneration. You should get yourself a cheap but potent drink for regenning. Even making Black Coffee is better than nothing or water.

In fact you probably want to make several of the low level drinks just for the discovery experience. Most of the ingredients are cheap.

I order my alchemy buffs with my progress buffs first, with the highest power usage first, down to the least power. Then the durability buffs in the same order. I try and balance my buff usage based on power. A lot of even combines take forever with a constant battle against durability loss. But as someone mentioned Chemistry goes up. Sometimes 2 or 3 times in a row.

[Yellowspine]

Generally what I do .... and note I'm at work and I really don't remember the different names, I just go by the Buff Symbol. General buffs:

? = Speeds up your progression - reduces durability of item- minor power bar loss
Beaker = Avg progression change - Increase Durability of item - hug power bar loss
Book = Decreased progression change - Durability is between the ? and Beaker change - Increase your power bar

Time your buffs/actions with the ticks.

I use the Tier 1 ? Buff right off the bat.
On average this gives a -10 +71 effect.
The Tier 2 ? is -5 +50 on average.

And for note: the Tier 2 Book is about +30 progression on average.

I wait for the tick to go off. If it doesn't prompt me for an action, I hit the Tier 1 ?. 95% of the time this gets me a prestine without having to do anything special, within about 5-7 ticks average.

The other 5% of the time, I get a bad run. When this happens I will hit the Tier 2 Beeker and Tier 2 ? for a 1-3 ticks. This will increase the durability of your item, as well as give you a good + on progression. Return to using the Tier 1 ?, or maybe pop a Tier 2 Book to gen a little power.

If I get a good run, and the pristine bar = or greater then 50%, I won't use any buffing and just let it ride out, letting my power regen for the next run so I don't have a break between combines.

HAVE GOOD FOOD/Drink!!!! As with fighting, eatting good food and drink will increase your power regen.

Anyway, this works well for me in doing initial stag combines. It's not as dependable for final combines and hard combines closer to your level. You will notice some combines are harder for you to make, like Stroma is easier then the Ink, even though they are same level.

[Foogrolym]

I can get away with tier 1 or tier 2 ? for the whole process almost all the time. If you lose enough durability to lose the pristine bar the beaker icon + the ? icon at the same time repeated until you get back into pristine usually helps me save pristine although that's not usually a problem on washes resins or oils for me. I do use that to save pristine at times making Iron Gual Ink still though at level 15 Scholar. When I say repeated do them both and when they wear off redo them not spammed as fast as possible. In my experience this will give you +durability and + progress. It eats a lot of power though just FYI. But it has saved my butt more than once.

Fooghealsu 15 Sholar 17 Cleric Najena Server

[Niami DenMother]

Aye, having drink regen up is very important for some tradeskills, and alchemy is one of the prime ones (though a lot less of an issue once I was above 20 alchemist and had different reactions that I preferred to use).

Your techniques for level 10+ will be different than what you did for level 3-9, due to having more/different reactions available. You'll find you change your method of alchemy again when you hit 20 and get a third set of reactions, and many of us mix and match.

A lot will change with the upcoming big patch, as it sounds like there will be reuse timers on reactions *and* they say they've changed the reactions a bit to be a bit more balanced across skills. We're not sure yet what this will mean in the long run, and it will likely take a bit of tuning once it's patched in for it to settle into place.

{crawls into Foog's packs and makes a halfling nest there in memory of days long, long gone in EQ1}

[Magnum]

-- shhhhhhh -- Mother is sleeping.

Couldn't resist, had a mental image of DenMother curled up in a backpack sleeping snugly. :)

[Cordorb]

If you are a pet class don't over look taking mana from the pet to speed up the down time between crafting items AND whack the pet just before hitting the begin button. This should give you time for 3 buffs and have the power replaced.

[Foogrolym]

Always leave a space for you in my packs!


Fooghealsu 19 Cleric Najena server

Ex Warlord

[Talonc]

Seems like everyone is making this out harder than it really is.

Tier 1 icons = +progress
Tier 2 icons = +durability
Tier 3 icons = +progress

The simpliest way to make pristine items is to increase durability first, then once you have a durability buffer (more durability than is shown), you can use the progress icons.

I normally do the following:

1) Begin
2) count to 3, hit Tier 2 icons (1,2,3) Thats 1-2-3 (all 3 icons, one at a time in sequence)
3) after tick (display numbers), hit Tier 2 icons (1,2,3) or countermeasure an event
4) Keep doing 3 until I build a durability buffer
5) If I have a buffer, I will hit +progress icons (1,2,3) NOTE: alchemy +progress icons takes alot of power, so I may forego this and stick with +durability)

Using the above method, I have yet to fail at creating a pristine item, even if the item is even to me. Granted, it may take me 5 mins or more making that even pristine Spell, but getting 10% exp for it makes it worth the time.

One note: if you lose the 4th bar, you can keep using the Tier 2 icons and regain the bar! I've done this many times with even scribing recipes.

[dkubicek]

The problem is not in the buffs, its in how fast your power bar decreases.
If I am using the druid congured food and drink do I still get the regeneration effect?
I will try just using teir 2 buffs to see if they take less power.

[Talonc]

The problem is not in the buffs, its in how fast your power bar decreases.
If I am using the druid congured food and drink do I still get the regeneration effect?
I will try just using teir 2 buffs to see if they take less power.

Scribing (arcana) tier 2 buffs take almost no power at all. Its one of the reasons I can go 5 minutes on tough recipes with little chance of not making a pristine scroll.

[Shader]

Don't use the Flask arts - at least, not until you get a feel for them. The Flask arts give you a fixed increase in durabiliity or progress, but they also decrease your "success chance" - they lower your odds of getting good results on the random part of the tick.

Personally, I only use the Flask arts either when the recipe is really easy and I want to speed through it, or when I need an emergency rescue from last-second durability loss.

[Vorvox]

Alchemist buffs take the most power I have noticed. If you can get player made drink it is the best while crafting. The summoned and vender food is kind of worthless. I have noticed that the, I have no idea what the buffs names are I just hit the button I don't pay attention :), Yellow Vile buff takes the most power, tier 1 or 2.
I guess my point is player made drink, its the BEST. Oh and if you have any power regen buff that would help.

[Latormenta]

Alchemy sucks huge aounts of power until you hit tier 4. In addition to high quality drink, I used to keep breeze up all the time, and I still finished some rounds completely OOP, nursing a combine through to the end with only the power regenerated during the process.

Now at tier 4, I don't even have to drink, and my power never drops below 90%.

[Daina]

Being a newbie Scholar, this talk of using buffs is kind of foreign to me. I just mostly make what I can and then counter the problems that arise by hitting the picture of the same item. For all of you that are experts by now, you all know what someone is talking about when they say durability buff, progress buff or whatever. As a beginner, needless to say I find it hard to follow. It would be more beneficial in my learning process if the icons that are being mentioned would be described by the image too. For instance I read that beaker is increased durability?

Maybe I just don't understand it yet, but I wish that someone would make a post on how to use these buffs, using very simple terms for newbies and assuming that I know nothing! Thanks for any help here.

[Trepan]

Daina,

The best possible thing you can do at your level of experience is to examine each of the tradeskill buffs in your book. Mousing over them with the book open will pop up the description of the skill. That description will tell you things like what events it counters and what effect using that skill has on your power, durability, progress and "chance of success".

Some add durability but lower your progress. Some add progress but chew up your power. Some add progress but lower your "chance of success". Knowing what skill does what provides you with the opportunity to make an informed decision as to what buff to use to counter events, and if there is no event, what you can cast to give whatever stat needs bumping a bump. (Darn, I'm really close to losing a level here, lets throw a little extra durability at this thing, I've got a little power to burn).

I put "chance of success" in quotes 'cause, frankly, I have no idea what precisely, that means myself 8-) If anyone wants to explain that to us, feel free. I'm listening 8-)

[NerissaGoldenrose]

My understanding is that "chance of success" is how good/bad your base numbers are for the round, before any progress or durability is added/subtracted. There are a handful of different sets of numbers, ranging from +lots/+lots to -lots/-lots (I don't know the exact numbers, as I pay more attention to the state of the bars than the actual numbers), and various points in between. A decrease in chance of success, I believe, decreases your chance at getting a good "roll" on the table determining which set of numbers you get for that round.

[Viliarna]

My understanding is that "chance of success" is how good/bad your base numbers are for the round, before any progress or durability is added/subtracted. There are a handful of different sets of numbers, ranging from +lots/+lots to -lots/-lots (I don't know the exact numbers, as I pay more attention to the state of the bars than the actual numbers), and various points in between. A decrease in chance of success, I believe, decreases your chance at getting a good "roll" on the table determining which set of numbers you get for that round.
Yes, and so far, no one knows exactly how the "success" is calculated, and can only sort of guess at the effect a -success Art has on the possibilities. <sigh>

[Acornia]

I think your crafting level plays a very important part in crafting. As an level 18 scholar I find that I get more progress advance being 5 or more skill levels above what you are crafting will give you more pristines.

Also since they put all related skills on the same timer to cut down on spaming 2 or more of the same skills at one time. What works best for me now is to just use the T2 skill to react to an event and don't spam anything else.

If you hit 2 or more keys at once, one effect will happen on that time tick and the next time tick the other key that you had pressed will happen. This can cause damage to to you if another event should happen on the next time tick.

[Viliarna]

I think your crafting level plays a very important part in crafting. As an level 18 scholar I find that I get more progress advance being 5 or more skill levels above what you are crafting will give you more pristines.

Also since they put all related skills on the same timer to cut down on spaming 2 or more of the same skills at one time. What works best for me now is to just use the T2 skill to react to an event and don't spam anything else.

If you hit 2 or more keys at once, one effect will happen on that time tick and the next time tick the other key that you had pressed will happen. This can cause damage to to you if another event should happen on the next time tick.
Actually, for what it is worth, when you are significantly higher in ability than the recipe you are working on, what seems to work best is utilizing all three of your progress increasing Tradeskill Arts each round. You likely aren't going to significantly affect the chance of a poor result (-50 durability, 0 progress) in this case, since you have a very high chance of getting a good result (-10 durability, +50 progress), and the extra added progress from using all three Arts significantly hurries the achievement of the end result. This is ESPECIALLY true when using the forge, as the progress bonus for those Arts is much higher than say, for making food items.

I also cannot think of a significant reason not to utilize at least one Art each round. If you are afraid of affecting the chance of a successful result that round, and if you don't want to use up any power, you can always use the (- durability, + progress) Art, which rarely has a significant effect upon Durability, but often has a much better effect upon Progress. When needed, mix in the complimentary (+ Durability, - Progress) Art to maintain a good level of quality. :)

[Aesbar]

I also cannot think of a significant reason not to utilize at least one Art each round. If you are afraid of affecting the chance of a successful result that round, and if you don't want to use up any power, you can always use the (- durability, + progress) Art, which rarely has a significant effect upon Durability, but often has a much better effect upon Progress. When needed, mix in the complimentary (+ Durability, - Progress) Art to maintain a good level of quality. :)
When I use a lot of arts, I tend to end with a LONG string of events, following eachother in each round (running the risk of explosions because of server lag). Either that or I get 5 BAD rounds in a row, completely negating any durability work I just did.

For what it's worth, I've tried doing nothing on combines, using 1 buff to counter events. I ended up at average level within a minute, whereas when using buffs a lot I STILL ended up at average level, only it took me 5 minutes :(

[Viliarna]

When I use a lot of arts, I tend to end with a LONG string of events, following eachother in each round (running the risk of explosions because of server lag). Either that or I get 5 BAD rounds in a row, completely negating any durability work I just did.

For what it's worth, I've tried doing nothing on combines, using 1 buff to counter events. I ended up at average level within a minute, whereas when using buffs a lot I STILL ended up at average level, only it took me 5 minutes :(
Then you are using the wrong Tradeskill Arts. :)

The thing to keep in mind about using Arts that increase Durability (which is what most people start trying once they hit Level 10 and get the new Arts) is that they penalize Progress much more than the first set of Arts penalize Durability. So you can end up with an increase in Durability of about 10 to 20, but you end up with an increase in Progress of only 25 to 30. For a basic refining recipe, with a Progress counter of 500, that can be pretty slow; for an item that combines multiple interim products, you often have total Progress of 1000 to get to. At 25 a shot, you are WAY slow getting there.

By contrast, using Arts that increase Progress at the expense of Durability will chew through Progress fairly quickly. Alchemy Arts for the first tier can give you up to 28 added Progress points per round if you use all three (IIRC). Weaponry Arts from the first tier can more than double your Progress. So the use of Durability increasing Arts should be limited to only what you need to avoid loss of a quality level. Otherwise, you should be using at least one Progress increasing Art every shot. The best one to use is the Power consumption Art; the second best one is the Durability decreasing Art; the very last one to use, and only when it doesn't matter one way or the other (e.g.: when making items that are almost trivial for you) is the success chance reducing Art. :)

[Aesbar]

I usually start using loads of durability buffs when I get something like -50 durability in a round. I *slowly* get it back, but it takes a *very* long time.
I'll try your suggestions, thanks :)

[Liandra]

I find with green recipies it is easier just to let it run without using buffs at all. 50% of the time i end up with pristine without doing anything.
If I am getting too low with durability I start using the +dura - power and + dura - progress buffs to get myself some breathing space.

[dogbones]

If you hit 2 or more keys at once, one effect will happen on that time tick and the next time tick the other key that you had pressed will happen. This can cause damage to to you if another event should happen on the next time tick.

Don't take offense Acornia, but this is simply incorrect.

I can get three buffs (that are on different timers) off in one tick (others have reported this as well). You need to be quick, but they all affect that round, they ARE NOT carried over to the next tick UNLESS it actually casts after the tick.

This is easier to see with just mixing two. Hit one then the other and you will see that they take effect in the same interval.

What may be happening for you is you are starting late in the interval and clicking two buffs on the same refresh counter. The second one will get queued up and cast after the counter resets, this may be after the tick and into the next interval. You may also have a laggy connection which would make it a lot harder to time things.

[beylanu]

Gonna throw in my 2 coppers on this one...

Recently after making loads of tier2 resins/washes/tempers for another alt, I've developed a strategy that makes me happy about making these dull combines.

As far as I can tell, there are 2 counters that take no power and 1 counter that takes ALOT of power. From memory I think it goes like

flask = no power(or very little)
book = no power
pink icon = lots of power

I use mainly tier 1 counters-progress(full steam ahead!). I adopted this strategy from working on my provisioner, and am most happy with it.

Basically, Durability be ****ed!

After each tick, I roll my fingers across the flask and book, leaving the power hungry pink-icon counter alone.

I finish each combine in very little time. Of course, my percentage of pristines is not as good, however I'm cranking so many vials out in such a short time, that I really couldn't care less. I'll qualify this by saying that my scholar is level sixteen and maxed in chemistry or whatever that skill is. Success will obviously vary depending on where you are in particular tier.

For those that are frustrated with these refinements, I suggest you try this for a session. It really reduces the aggravation, allowing you to spend more quality time with the inks =P.

One last note, after a few combines, you will sometimes notice that the correct application of a few durability counters will actually make the process even faster! It's usually when the green bar on the pristine level is getting small, and the progress bar on the pristine level is really close to finish.

[Viliarna]

I find with green recipies it is easier just to let it run without using buffs at all. 50% of the time i end up with pristine without doing anything.
If I am getting too low with durability I start using the +dura - power and + dura - progress buffs to get myself some breathing space.
While it is true that you will likely end up Pristine on "green" recipes (especially those that are very close to being "grey") without using Tradeskill Arts, you are taking more time by doing it that way. If you "spam" the three available Progress increasing Arts each round, you significantly decrease the number of rounds needed to reach the finished product, without much increase in the chance of significant Durability loss.

As an example: On a basic refine, you are working to gain 500 points of Progress before you lose 200 points of Durability. Ten rounds of -10,+50 do the trick. But if you use all the Progress increasing Arts, you only add about -6 to -10 to the Durability loss (negligible, and not enough to put you over the -200 level) while at the same time increasing your Progress by 25 to 50 points per round (or more! Lucky Weaponsmiths....). For an Alchemist, for example, the number of rounds reduces to 7 per item, exclusive of the effect of Events, and without counting in the possibility of a Very Good roll (+100).

So I suppose it depends on what you want to be doing at the keyboard: clicking/pushing and taking less time, or reading a book/watching TV and taking more time. :)

[Liandra]

So I suppose it depends on what you want to be doing at the keyboard: clicking/pushing and taking less time, or reading a book/watching TV and taking more time. :)

I tend to surf the web while doing this. I have the windows arranged so i can see the tradeskill window behind my web window so I can jump in and use a few buffs if need be.

Personally i find it just as quick to let things run by themselves than to spam buffs. Especially with the green combines. With the extra time waiting to regen power it evens up. /shrug

[Viliarna]

I tend to surf the web while doing this. I have the windows arranged so i can see the tradeskill window behind my web window so I can jump in and use a few buffs if need be.

Personally i find it just as quick to let things run by themselves than to spam buffs. Especially with the green combines. With the extra time waiting to regen power it evens up. /shrug
Um, who waits for power regeneration? Not I! ;)

Drink, drink, drink is the key to power control.

The numbers say that you will take less time using Tradeskill Arts. That is not arguable; it's the wonderful thing about mathematics. But if, as you say, you like to do other things while crafting, then I can understand not bothering with the effort. :)