Beta Test report

[Grei]

Well, this is my report on my first day of Beta, since the NDA is lifted and I can actually write something up. I'm posting it here, since I was trying to work on Artisan and we don't have a beta discussion area.

Ok, first attempt was with a halfling scout. I made it through some of the basic quests on the island with the only real issue being my healthbar never initialized so I never knew how my health was. When I crashed my client though, I had finally gotten fed up with being short (don't know how you shortie players can handle that, at least not in first person view), so I deleted and recreated as a wood elf priest.

This time around, I found several different quests--leading me to believe that more than a few are random, which was an interesting touch. Still, I got through the tradeskill quests like before and even did some of the priest quests and tried to do some of the other quests I found, before after hitting hour #6 and realizing I wasn't really getting around to doing much of anything to progress, I decided it was time to move on to Qeynos.

One little note I'd like to make here, before going on to my Qeynos experiences. Harvesting is very easy on the starting Isle--you couldn't walk much of anywhere without tripping over a harvest spot. Later on, I found that this set up false expectations, but I'll get into that in my Qeynos section.

So anyway, I was a nice level 4/4 priest/artisan when I made the jump to Qeynos...though a bit on the broke side (overspent on fuel for a few refinement projects before I had left the Isle). I went through the first little quest which gets you familiar with getting your own room (I was rather disappointed that it'll cost 5 silver a week, even though it's a 'free room') as well as get to know your way around town.

I popped over into the neighboring Forest during this time, knowing that I needed to do some levelling as I had left the Isle a bit early and soon worked my way up to level 5. I then found out what the Citizenship quest was all about--something pretty darn easy, actually. The Citizenship quest is 2 fold, at least for wood elves, the first part going into the Forest (it's a different zone per suburb, I understand, so don't expect to end up in the Forest like I did) and killing the critters until you collect 5 tokens. Now the last token for me was pretty stealthy--I never realized I got it and after 15 minutes of waiting for it to drop, I finally looked in my journal and found that I could go on. Moonshade had a similar experience with this, from what he told me.

Part 2 of the quest, at least for me, was talking to the Marshal and then dealing with a batch of criminals. I went with the 'talk before killing' route when I could, though I only saved one person that way as I killed the one who tried to bribe me, killed the one who wouldn't talk, and then trapped the ringleader into realizing she said too much and killed her in self defense. Anyway, once done, I was free to go anywhere in town--I was still in the middle of level 5 when I was done with it, though I had a fairly easy time due to being able to chain cast Smite.

After you become a citizen, you get a tome which outlines a bunch of people and places in a 'meet and greet' quest, where you have to go find these people and places. I ran into Ngreth around this time and stopped and chatted with him and then with Denmom when she showed up. BTW folks, if you see Ngreth in bearform, don't stick around to see what happens when it wears off--the result is hard on the eyes. ;)

Oh, I should mention that mixed in with the citizenship quest, I took a few breaks to play with crafting, but I'll go into detail on that seperately here. :)

Anyway, after leaving Ngreth and Niami to their own fun, I went around doing the meet and greet stuff of which only one location has escaped me so far and I even sacrificed a life (and a shard) trying to find it, but in a few levels I ought to be able to survive better. I also spent some time hanging out in the Forest with Moonshade, killing critters for one of the guards, and trying to harvest roots (more on that in a bit) as well as anything else that would spawn. I hit level 7 and decided it was time to find an upgrade to Smite since I wasn't getting any more combat spells to date and then I went and poked around into a few other quests I had collected earlier in the day. And thus brings us to the end of my first day of Adventuring...a level 7 priest and a level 5 artisan.

Now for the Artisan side of things. :) The Artisan quest on the Isle is quick, easy and pretty fool proof. None of the bad things happened during the two combines you need to do for the quest, though I guess it's possible it could happen as you are given 3 fuel and 3 temper(?--can't remember what exactly that slot is called). As I mentioned above, harvesting is really easy on the Isle, though being relatively poor, the lack of bags and other storage devices is a bit of a pain. Also knowing what to sell and what to keep (I ended up selling anything that wasn't saying it was a tradeskill, or researchable item).

The Isle is also easier on crafting as the craftroom is instanced so you're the only person using it. Means no waiting to use a tool. :) Once you get off the Isle, you have to share the craftroom with others--though they're still instanced so you're not having to fight your way through more than around 20-25 other players and there's 3 of each tool, so unless you're trying to use a popular tool (it was the Chemistry table in my case), there's seldom any wait. There's also a merchant in these larger craftrooms, but since everyone sells their wares to the merchant, the shopping list is rather long.

Now for the crafting...and why I am annoyed at my inability to find roots. For just about everything you need to make, you need a temper or other such oil or potion or what have you (I can't remember what they are all called at the moment--been playing too long today). Well, the main ingredient of these tempers, at least the ones I needed, was roots. :) In some cases you can use other things (I once used a botched result of one thing which could be refined or reduced down to this other variation), but it isn't too forthcoming on your options--only showing what you can use that you have on hand.

Anyway, the actual crafting process was interesting--though letting your attention wander can be painful. Denmom did point out something that I hadn't consciously noticed, though I had set up my hotkeys in the right order to handle it, and that is that there's 2 sets of 3 bad things...so set up your hotkeys to have the 3 counters for each set together. In otherwords, you only need to worry about using 3 counters during each craft process and those 3 are in a single group so if you need to counter Daydream, you will know what the other 2 counters you will be using are (I can't remember which is which, so that kind of detail can come later). I still haven't worked out the crafting buffs though Ngreth and Denmom told me that some are long duration and some are short, so expect more on that later.

About the only other bit of advice I can think of (since I'm rather punchy and tired now) is to get your recipe books as soon as you can afford them. The number of the book represents the level those recipes are for, so try to get the book just before you level or as soon after you level as you can and scribe the recipes. Otherwise you'll be stuck with recipes that won't get you much experience.

Oh, and the higher the level of your components (even the secondary items, like the tempers), the further you can progress your final result--and the more experience you earn. So try to make your own components when you can, or find someone who can make them for you--I'll leave the quality naming scheme for a later time or for something that people can learn on their own. Merchant bought secondary components will hinder your final result--locking you out from getting the highest qualities. People who are grinding through without worrying about such things are going to end up taking longer to level than those who do worry about quality.

And that wraps up day 1. Tomorrow I won't have as much free time to play, so who knows if I'll do anything worth writing up a report about. :) Hopefully this helps give folks an idea of what's going on.

Grei

[Zendaken]

Hey Grei, nice post and congratz on getting into Beta and finally getting it downloaded!

I look forward to reading more.

Zen

[Ngreth Thergn]

After you become a citizen, you get a tome which outlines a bunch of people and places in a 'meet and greet' quest, where you have to go find these people and places. I ran into Ngreth around this time and stopped and chatted with him and then with Denmom when she showed up. BTW folks, if you see Ngreth in bearform, don't stick around to see what happens when it wears off--the result is hard on the eyes. ;)
{There is a bug where when an illusuary form drops you are put back in your normal body... but FULLY naked (there are small darker patches over the provates)}

The Isle is also easier on crafting as the craftroom is instanced so you're the only person using it. Means no waiting to use a tool. :) Once you get off the Isle, you have to share the craftroom with others--though they're still instanced so you're not having to fight your way through more than around 20-25 other players and there's 3 of each tool, so unless you're trying to use a popular tool (it was the Chemistry table in my case), there's seldom any wait. There's also a merchant in these larger craftrooms, but since everyone sells their wares to the merchant, the shopping list is rather long.
Actually ( and this was asked before) the tools can be shared. I do not know if there is a limit of users per tool, but I have never hit it. I have seen 4 people using the same tool :)

Also. NONE of the NPC's remeber or sell back what is sold to them. Once an item is sold to an NPC it is gone for good... poof! no vendor diving in EQ2 That long list is actually a list of most of the tradeskill supplies needed in the game!


Now for the crafting...and why I am annoyed at my inability to find roots. For just about everything you need to make, you need a temper or other such oil or potion or what have you (I can't remember what they are all called at the moment--been playing too long today). Well, the main ingredient of these tempers, at least the ones I needed, was roots. :) In some cases you can use other things (I once used a botched result of one thing which could be refined or reduced down to this other variation), but it isn't too forthcoming on your options--only showing what you can use that you have on hand.

tempers for level 1-9 are just as expensive to make as it is to buy them from the NPC... so jsut buy them from the NPC, though making some is good for learning the craft, and in the first few levels are decent exp :)

[Grei]

Actually ( and this was asked before) the tools can be shared. I do not know if there is a limit of users per tool, but I have never hit it. I have seen 4 people using the same tool :)
This might be something they should actually have explained as part of the tradeskill tutorial then, since there were a few people waiting around to use a tool. And since my head was spinning a bit yesterday, I just followed the crowd. ;)

Also. NONE of the NPC's remeber or sell back what is sold to them. Once an item is sold to an NPC it is gone for good... poof! no vendor diving in EQ2 That long list is actually a list of most of the tradeskill supplies needed in the game!
Well, everything but the tempers. :) I know I saw them on someone yesterday, but now I can't remember where. :( Oh well, I foresee more exploring in my future. :)

Which reminds me of another thing I forgot to mention. You get xp for exploring now. Whenever you find a landmark or notable location, such as Qeynos Hills, you get xp for it. In fact, I got from middle of level 5 to level 6 this way, and probably a good distance into 6 (since I wasn't paying that close attention at the time).

tempers for level 1-9 are just as expensive to make as it is to buy them from the NPC... so jsut buy them from the NPC, though making some is good for learning the craft, and in the first few levels are decent exp :)
They might be just as expensive, but if you're trying to do go for the best quality possible, making your own (or buying them from another player) is the only way to go. :) Other than the lack of roots, or whatever equivalent materials, anyway. :)

Grei

[Flendon]

Thats really great! Thanks and grats on getting in Grei. Great to know those of us concerned with quality get an added bonus of more xp!! :D

[Grei]

I finally found the tempers...and it was my own fault that I couldn't find them yesterday. :) After going on and on about how merchant bought tempers weren't as good, I didn't bother looking for them in the lesser qualities, only under their average names. ;)

Grei

[Moonshade]

Great write up Grei! Did you do this last night? It was pretty late already when I camped.

Anyways, I'll add a couple tidbits. As far as the citizenship token quest goes; I think my problem was that I was doing the vermin removal quest at the same time as the token quest. For those who don't know, any time to fulfill a quest requirement you get an alert noise, and some large text on the screen. I was killing certain beetles for the vermin removal quest, and must've gotten my last token at the same time. So, either the token text got pushed aside for the vermin text, or more likely, I just didn't notice. Probably the latter.

As for the crafting, I am also level 5 Artisan at the moment. Like Ngreth said, the tempers and oils needed (called 'liquids' in the recipe btw) are for sale for 12cp each from the trades merchant. I had some problems locating them at first too. The list of things they sell is alphabetical, and I was looking for 'Fossil Temper'. Turns out they sell 'Shaped Fossil Temper', which is the 2nd lowest quality of 4 I believe. I think it goes crude, shaped, normal, and pristine, though I've never seen pristine before. :P

After getting my level 5 recipe book from the vendor, I found I could finally make some finished products! I decided to make an elm strongbox, just to see my name on something. For this, I needed to forge a tin stud, tin sheet, make some planed elm, then make them all into the box. I was successful in making a crude elm strongbox, which is a 4 slot box. The problem is it weighs 100lbs! Then I found out that merchants don't buy storage items! So...it went into the destroy bin. :( though is still felt good to make a finished item.

As far as I know, they don't have any crafting quests or tasks in the game yet. One of the trades vendors keeps saying to 'do a task from the list', but there is no list. It was fun seeing Grei and I can't wait to see everyone else in there!

Edit: Forgot to mention that I got a recipe book from a Mob drop! That was pretty cool, its a level 7 book called Machinists Armor. I'll make a seperate thread and show a pic of that book if anyone wants.

[Grei]

You know, I have yet to make a chest. Was going to make one for my home, but every time I start on it, it drops to the point of aborting in the blink of an eye. I finally decided I was wasting too much sandpaper on it for now, but it was a minor annoyance. Might've been because I was using the merchant bought tempers when I did the tin stud and sheet...the wood I did back when I still had roots to make my own resin, so it's as good as I could make it (not Pristine though...but in time, we'll see).

As for the levels, there's at least 5 though I've only seen 4. In order from worst to best:

Crude
Shaped (this is what the merchants sell)
<None> (Average)
Pristine
?????

There might be more, but that's all I've seen so far in my attempts and I only had one or two objects that had 5 levels show up, hence why ?'s for the last--until you actually get something up to the level of quality, you don't know the name for it. When you start out crafting a new object, all of the levels are just ?, but as you progress and make the object better, then it reveals each level as you get to it. Of course, there are levels you can't get to, depending on the quality of ingredients--in the case of the elm box I was making, I only have 2 levels showing with my current ingredients, hence why it dropped so fast.

Grei

[Flendon]

Got this off my guild board. The poster is usually pretty acurate:

These are the item quality titles as far as I know right now in the order given:
Malformed - lowest - can be reused in the first component slot
Crude - very low
Shaped - low
(no title) - average
Pristine - high
*note these are different for food

[DeWeasel]

They might be just as expensive, but if you're trying to do go for the best quality possible, making your own (or buying them from another player) is the only way to go. :) Other than the lack of roots, or whatever equivalent materials, anyway. :)

Grei


Just a minor point about this. You can make better than shaped tempers yourself. On the other hand, there aren't many recipes that I've seen yet (10th level crafting) with the temper as the primary component. So for any recipe where the temper is not the primary component, it doesn't matter if the temper is crude, shaped, pristine, or whatever.

Note that I've spent most of my time making backpacks and spell upgrades so far, so its quite possible I'm off on this. And as an aside, I made most of my own tempers too, mostly because I wanted to learn how.

Oh, and the alchemy buffs need the most work IMO. In my experience they have less of an effect than the other buffs, especially the tailoring and woodworking ones, and they burn a lot of power.

[Ngreth Thergn]

ONLY the primary component affects the quality of what you make :) Period.

exp for an Item is figured as:

(exp for main component + exp for each build component + exp for recipe) * con * result quality.

the exp per component depends on the quality of the component.
the exp for the recipe itself is usually 0, but there is a bonus for making rare item recipes.
the con is a multiplier, and the result quality is a multiplyer.

This may NOT be an exact formula at all! but it gives an idea, it also shows that having better components gets you better exp.

What you will find is, making everything you can yourself, you get better exp overall than just buying parts from the vendor, but you spend alot more time per item, and sometimes (not always) a slight difference in the coin cost. You will always (when the bugs are out) have the potential to make higher quality items when you make your own primary component. Doing this gets you more exp per combine. Making things using all store bought components (it is posible, but your final item is likely to be crude) is much faster, but significantly less exp, and your item is capped at shaped.

[Grei]

Actually Ngreth, I'm not convinced it's only the primary component. I've done some variations with the secondary components and had different levels show up in the list on what the final result could be. Maybe the influence is just more noticable at lower level than at higher since a higher tradeskill would also affect the end result.

Grei

[Grei]

Ok, since something seems to have locked my account so I can't get into the servers currently (must've zoned into a down zone and it glitched) as it thinks I'm already in the game, I pretty much think I'm done playing for the day. :)

So here's today's fun and games so far...basically not much to mention that I haven't mentioned already. ;)

I spent the morning working on crafting up the raw materials I'd gathered last night due to my inability to think to look for Shaped liquids instead of average liquids. Yeah, yeah, pretty stupid of me...but hey, it's a new game and new system. :) I did some work on turning rough malachite into faceted malachite with the hopes of being able to turn them into jewelry--but at level 6, I still don't have any jewelry recipes, just refining and components. Still, it did get me up to level 6 which was a good thing.

After getting bored doing malachite (although different, crafting does have some tedium--but I don't know how much of that is just because this is refining and component work which tends to be repetitive anyway), I decided to go and work on that elm strongbox. Since I had a bunch of tin on hand, I knew I could work up the studs and lead sheet.

Now this is the point where I played with merchant bought and my own made tempers. For working with tin, at least raw to refined to sheet or stud, you use a fossil temper which is made from an inorganic material like rough malachite. I used merchant bought temper to convert the tin cluster into a tin bar (as that's relatively troublefree as there are no bad things that happen at this time, probably because of making it easier for the quest on the newbie Isle) and ended up with 2 pristine tin bars. Then I turned one into a stud using the merchant bought Shaped Fossil Temper and ended up with a Shaped Tin Stud--yes I had 4 levels showing when I started, but that 4th level vanished the first pulse and I barely missed getting a Tin Stud by a pulse (let the quality drop too low right at the end). Then I repeated the process using my made temper and I easily made it up to Tin Stud and might've got up to Pristine if I used my buffs a bit (didn't want to influence the test though, so went through the same process on both).

I suspect that if I had a Pristine Fossil Temper, I could've got a Pristine Tin Stud--maybe higher (if there is a higher, that is) so the quality of the secondary materials really does have some influence on things, maybe not on the overall number of levels like I think I've seen so far, but on how easy it is to get to the higher levels. Anyway, I digress. :)

I didn't bother going to the trouble with the lead sheet since using the merchant bought temper, I got a Tin Sheet with a little difficulty and didn't think I'd do much better with my own temper. So I went and tried to make the elm strongbox that I was griping about earlier and foolishly thinking the interface would use the best materials on hand, tried to make the blasted thing--but it was trying to use that Shaped Tin Stud, so that's why I kept failing. After a crash (and having lunch) and getting back in, I sold off the Shaped stud and tried again--and while I couldn't get better than a Crude Elm Strongbox, I actually didn't have anywhere near as much trouble with the combine--other than finding out that the woodworking buff (at least the Seasoned Wood one) didn't work on this final combine, though it worked fine when I had made the planed elm plank (board?) last night.

And that's basically all I did today (besides argue here on the forums *grins*), since I crashed out and got my account locked up on my way to hunt (and harvest) in Peat Bog.

Now for my future plans on crafting, I still haven't decided which profession I'm going to go into (it's tough to decide, since I love making so many different things). I also still haven't quite got a firm grasp on the buffs yet--often when I use them, I end up with a worst result than when I don't use them, even with countering all of the bad things. I get the vague feeling that the beginning buffs aren't really that well worked out--I'm sure when they work right, the results are wonderful, but they don't seem to work right that often yet. But that's something that will take time and money to test out reliably of which I have time, but the money is a bit slow (I did grumble about the darn weekly 5 silver rent on our 'free' apartments last night, didn't I?)

Well, hopefully my account issues get straightened out by the time I get back home from an evening with my folks so I can get a few more hours in tonight and be able to add to this. :) If not, well it just means I get to beta test out CS tomorrow. ;)

Grei

Update: Ok, my account issues resolved themselves while I was busy posting this little report, so I'll definitely be back on tonight. :)

[DeWeasel]

exp for an Item is figured as:

(exp for main component + exp for each build component + exp for recipe) * con * result quality.

the exp per component depends on the quality of the component.
the exp for the recipe itself is usually 0, but there is a bonus for making rare item recipes.
the con is a multiplier, and the result quality is a multiplyer.

This may NOT be an exact formula at all! but it gives an idea, it also shows that having better components gets you better exp.



OK, this is good to know! :) I knew I got more exp over the course of making all my own stuff, but I figured it was because I was doing a lot more combines. I didn't realize the quality of the components affected exp at all. Cool! Thanks Ngreth.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Actually Ngreth, I'm not convinced it's only the primary component. I've done some variations with the secondary components and had different levels show up in the list on what the final result could be. Maybe the influence is just more noticable at lower level than at higher since a higher tradeskill would also affect the end result.

Grei

It is a bug. The dev has flately states that only the primary component counts... So send in a bug report on that recipe :)

[Ngreth Thergn]

OK, this is good to know! :) I knew I got more exp over the course of making all my own stuff, but I figured it was because I was doing a lot more combines. I didn't realize the quality of the components affected exp at all. Cool! Thanks Ngreth.

it is both :) you get the experience making the sub components, and then as a bonus get better experience on the final component. :)

[Drucilla]

Nice write up Grei!

I never noticed those recipes affected by more than that, thanks for pointing that out. I remember when I first heard about the primary ingredient thing, I started making more crude tempers from leftover materials just to use them up. Because it's the same cost to make vs buy, the only supposed benefit in this is the teensy xp gained.

[Grei]

Well, I don't have much to add for last night or this morning's session. Last night was plagued by zone crashes while out doing quests and making money plus harvesting and today I only did a bit of crafting to play around with the buffs some more.

Still, there's a few things I'd better post on. It seems that my impression that there's 5 levels of quality is wrong--considering how much was coming at me all at once on Saturday, I should've been taking notes. There are only 4 levels...Pristine being the best (at this time) though I personally think 5 levels would've provided more symmetry.

Secondly, on the quality of secondary ingredients and how it affects things--I went back and repeated my experiment of yesterday and just couldn't get the same results. So I don't know if I had stumbled on a bug yesterday which has since by fixed, or if it's a rare bug, or if I just wasn't being as careful and observant as I thought I was.

That said, I did notice a difference in speed on the completion between store bought and homemade secondary components as well as a difference in how fast durability dropped--but there's so many variations in how the tools react (as I ranted about last night) which we haven't got any real control over other than through buffs which don't always apply or even work effectively, that it'd probably take a run of 100 of each to really prove any difference. Still, I plan on being more observant in the future and try to match up 'identical' processes of each to see if there is any benefit beyond the better xp.

And last, but not least, I _still_ haven't got any clue as to what I'm going to specialize in. :) I'm up to level 7 now...and after tonight's planned run of crafting (want to work on upgrading my spells at least and playing with food), I'll probably be up to level 8 or 9. I frankly enjoy being able to make whatever it is that my whims take me, but I might be leaning towards the knowledge side of things since I keep finding myself at the chemistry table and jeweller's workbench, so Scholar is probably my next decision (though I may change my mind again).

Grei

[Moonshade]

That said, I did notice a difference in speed on the completion between store bought and homemade secondary components as well as a difference in how fast durability dropped--but there's so many variations in how the tools react (as I ranted about last night) which we haven't got any real control over other than through buffs which don't always apply or even work effectively, that it'd probably take a run of 100 of each to really prove any difference.

Well, just think of it like the Devs have said from the beginning; you are 'encountering' the device like an adventurer 'encounters' a Mob. Think of fighting Mobs of blue or higher. Some fights go very quickly with almost no loss of hp, sometimes the same Mob will take me down to a quarter hp even though I use the same strategy every time. The same happens in crafting and no matter how you apply the crafting buffs, randomness will be a major factor in the outcome I think. Personally, I think of crafting as a big dice roll that I can push in my favor with the buffs, usually. :D

[Grei]

Well, just think of it like the Devs have said from the beginning; you are 'encountering' the device like an adventurer 'encounters' a Mob. Think of fighting Mobs of blue or higher. Some fights go very quickly with almost no loss of hp, sometimes the same Mob will take me down to a quarter hp even though I use the same strategy every time. The same happens in crafting and no matter how you apply the crafting buffs, randomness will be a major factor in the outcome I think. Personally, I think of crafting as a big dice roll that I can push in my favor with the buffs, usually. :D
True, except I have yet to have any blue level encounter (except group encounters while I'm soloing--I _will_ learn to read that little indicator yet) take me down to 80, 60, or even 40% health within the first three rounds without me doing any damage at all. And yet I've seen this happen a couple of times now while crafting--even on crafting green objects. Now a white level or higher, I can understand that...but I'm just having an issue with how often the bad result rounds come up when crafting the green or blue level recipes.

Grei

[Moonshade]

but I'm just having an issue with how often the bad result rounds come up when crafting the green or blue level recipes.

Yup, I feel your pain as well, especially when you lose a chance at a higher quality level and can't get it back again. I think Ngeth is on to a good method in another thread about timing the buffs to the pulses, we'll have to test that out on other devices.

[Ngreth Thergn]

My timing method only works for metalworking (forge) and Tailoring (sewing table). You can do something similar for woodwoking (woodworking bench) but you run out of power too fast. The rest of the tables... forget it.

[Grei]

Ok, in my ongoing trend to document my Beta experience, here's today's part 2 update. :)

I spent the last 2 hours doing nothing but tradeskills (I ran out of money, or else I'd still be doing it instead of having dinner. :D). Started out working on jewelry since I got a recipe for a Malachite ring and other than the ring I picked up during one of the starting quests, just hadn't found a second one. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, it came out as a Crude Malachite Ring (I'll post the stats later tonight, when I've got it in front of me). My experience during working on this though, where at several of the intermediate steps I had just missed a better result by a pulse or two, gave me an idea for an Artisan ability that would be useful. More on that later though. :)

After making the ring, I went on to work on making myself my spell upgrades since I had recipes for 3 of them to be upgraded to App III. For the first one, I decided to do it the hard way and make everything...but after 3 steps (Refined Isonold->Sepia Dye->Sepia Ink), the best I could do on my Sepia Ink was a Crude Sepia Ink and this is the primary ingredient for the App III upgrades I have currently. Well, I decided to go through with using it to see what the end result was...and it actually worked, though it was a Crude Courage (App III) (or however it was labelled) that was the end result. The interesting thing to note though was the name of the object was in orange--a few levels above my level 9 priest.

To continue with my experiments, I decided to do it two different ways. One spell I would buy the Refined Isonold, make my own Sepia Dye and Ink from there...but buy the rest of the secondary ingredients (Elm Quill and Papeterie Paper) to just have only one variable to deal with. The other one I would buy the Shaped Sepia Dye (couldn't find any Ink) and make the Ink and go from there as before. Well, in the case of making the Dye and Ink, again I ended up with a Crude result (Minor Healing this time), but the name was in yellow, not in orange. Ok, that was interesting...on to seeing what buying as much as I can with the minimum of preparation--ended up with Crude again (Smite), and the name was also in yellow, though at this point I was expecting a white result.

Of course I used them right there on the spot (didn't have the inventory space, nor the money to make duplicates) so I don't know if there are any variations in the end result besides the color of the names or if a success is a success. We'll investigate that later though...

Now onto the idea for a new ability (which I already submitted a /feedback on). Basically I've noticed several times that I just miss a better result by one or two pulses and end up with the durability dropping me down to the next lower quality level. So what I suggested as an ability was a one shot per encounter ability to 'freeze' the durability drain for one or two pulses, possibly scaled upwards depending on level of skill. This kind of ability would give us a chance to make a 'last ditch' effort to get the better quality, though of course there still remains a chance for the one or two pulses to not be enough and you drop a level after the effect fades anyway.

Grei

[Grei]

Ok, here's the stats on the ring I made. Keep in mind it was green to me at level 9 (but I wore it anyway since I had an open ring slot).

crude fashioned malachite ring

+2 vs disease +1 vs heat

Armor Class 3

Skill Magic Affinity
Required 1
Recommended 20

Slot Left Ring
Right Ring
Condition 90% (probably was 100% when I started--but I've been beat up a few times)
Weight 1.0

Made by Grei

You are considerably overqualified for this item.

Grei

[Grei]

And here's today's report, part 3.

For tonight's session, I finished up reaching level 10 as an adventurer though originally I was mainly working on harvesting and finishing up a few quests--but the quest put me over, so I did the final steps of my class quest and became a druid. Actually, it's all Moonshade's fault--if he hadn't been talking about his experiences with his class quest, I probably would've put it off until later. ;)

After reaching Druid, thanks to Mum's help, I found the Tower of Vhalen and finished up my Qeynos intro quest at long last. Then I decided that it was time to work on cooking since it's the one tradeskill I hadn't experimented with.

Since there's just soooooo many recipes for cooking/brewing, and many of them are still not fully implemented due to the harvesting changes, I couldn't settle on anything I really wanted to make. So, since this is Beta, and I was talking to Mum at the time, I decided to take a systematic approach and make one of everything that is possible to be made at this time. I started at level 3 (which had a recipe that required a level 6 made product, though that item was available on the merchant) and worked my way up to level 7, managing to gain 2 levels in the process before I ran out of cash.

There are several recipes that I'll need to go back and work on, since most of the early brewing recipes require homebrew beer--which the first recipe possible (at least currently) isn't doable until level 7. But that's on tomorrow's project list if I'm in the mood. :)

After running out of money (and currently cooking results don't sell back that well--only 1 or 2 copper apiece), I decided it was time to go hunting and make some more money. And boy did I. :) I got lucky and had 4 chests drop in short order, all 4 of which had iron brigandine leggings that sold for a total of a little bit under 28 silver (they were like 6 silver 80 copper apiece). And thus ended my evening, after banking a little more in savings to pay for rent and upgrading a few pieces of armor that had slipped too low in level.

Grei

[nonhelpful]

If you get more exp for the final product if you make the subcomines yourself, does this count on subcombines that are gray?

Or did i misunderstand that?..

[Valquiss]

Okay, here's a complex question to riff off that question.

I can easily see how the you could get more xp off a final combine using all artisan-made componants even if the earlier combines were themselves grey. But there are two ways that could be done, with different implications. 1) Artisan-made stuff could be tagged differently (even when it looks the same as store bought) and contribute an xp bonus. 2) Artisan-made stuff is already tagged with your character name, and that could be the indicator that gets you your bonus xp.

Now, why does the difference matter? If it's the first system then high level artisans are actually motivated to "farm out" their pre-combines to other lower-level artisans! Which could be kinda cool, like having apprentices. Probably if you were willing to supply the ingredients you could find lowbie artisans to do your pre-combines for free or for very little cash and save yourself all the time but gain the benefit of using artisan-made stuff in your final combines. If the second system is the case, however, you only get credit for doing stuff start to finish on your own.

Let me know if I'm out to lunch here, because I'm not in beta yet and I know all kinds of strange ideas can seem to make sense from the outside, but I think it's definitely the case that you get an xp bonus on the final combine by using artisan-made componants, and I just don't know which system that's under.

Take care,
Val

P.S. If I stump the ogre with this one I'll consider that a compliment. :)

[Moonshade]

I believe the exp is handled individually for each item you make. If you have to make 3 green items as sub-components of a white item, then you get green exp X3 and white exp X1. Also, I'm pretty sure your name only gets tagged on finished items, not sub-components. I'm not 100% sure on anything this morning as I was kept up way too late trying (and finally succeeding) in obtaining Predator status.

[xirxx]

To continue with my experiments, I decided to do it two different ways. One spell I would buy the Refined Isonold, make my own Sepia Dye and Ink from there...but buy the rest of the secondary ingredients (Elm Quill and Papeterie Paper) to just have only one variable to deal with. The other one I would buy the Shaped Sepia Dye (couldn't find any Ink) and make the Ink and go from there as before. Well, in the case of making the Dye and Ink, again I ended up with a Crude result (Minor Healing this time), but the name was in yellow, not in orange.

Grei

Buy the dye - make the ink. Buy the rest of the components and make the spells. There is only one spell outcome anyways. Will save you time. I currently wouldn't use spells to level up as they sell at a loss to vendor.

[Ngreth Thergn]

If you get more exp for the final product if you make the subcomines yourself, does this count on subcombines that are gray?

Or did i misunderstand that?..

My best guess is exp is like this. (NOTE it is jsut an idea of what it is and does not necesarily reflect what the actuall calculation is.

exp = (X + Y1 [+Y2 +Y3 +Y4 +Y5] +Z) * A * B

X = exp for the Main Component. This values is based on the quality of the main component. This value is based on the quality of the item from crude a the lowest pristine as the highest.
Y1-5 = exp for the Build COmponents. This values is based on the quality of the main component. You need 1-5 components :) This value is based on the quality of the item from crude a the lowest pristine as the highest.
Z = recipe bonus exp. Some recipes offer a bonus exp, especially rare component recipes.
A = CON of the recipe itself. There is a multiplier based on the con of the recipe. Green gets less exp than blue then white, then yellow then orange then red.
B = Result quality multiplier. Crude result gets the least exp, then shaped, then normal, then pristine.

So yes, even grey sub components may make a difference, BUT it may not be worth the time to make them in this case.

(the formula may be exp = (X+Z)*A*B + Y[1-5]... but we have no details)

[Ngreth Thergn]

Okay, here's a complex question to riff off that question.

I can easily see how the you could get more xp off a final combine using all artisan-made componants even if the earlier combines were themselves grey. But there are two ways that could be done, with different implications. 1) Artisan-made stuff could be tagged differently (even when it looks the same as store bought) and contribute an xp bonus. 2) Artisan-made stuff is already tagged with your character name, and that could be the indicator that gets you your bonus xp.

Now, why does the difference matter? If it's the first system then high level artisans are actually motivated to "farm out" their pre-combines to other lower-level artisans! Which could be kinda cool, like having apprentices. Probably if you were willing to supply the ingredients you could find lowbie artisans to do your pre-combines for free or for very little cash and save yourself all the time but gain the benefit of using artisan-made stuff in your final combines. If the second system is the case, however, you only get credit for doing stuff start to finish on your own.
Nope. It is based soly of the quality of the refine/interum part. It has nothing to do with if it was NPC bought or player made.

Plus... you only get the player mark on FINAL products, not refine or interum (less stuff for the DB to track, and it make sense... since those itesm go poof)



P.S. If I stump the ogre with this one I'll consider that a compliment. :)
No cookie for you! :) Sorry not stumped :D

[Ngreth Thergn]

Buy the dye - make the ink. Buy the rest of the components and make the spells. There is only one spell outcome anyways. Will save you time. I currently wouldn't use spells to level up as they sell at a loss to vendor.

Correct. The ONLY reason to wory on the quality of the scroll is exp. You do get beter exp for making a higher "quality" scroll... but the for scroll itself, it makes no difference whatsoever.

[Grei]

Before I go into my morning report, I just want to comment on the comments about results and variations. :) One of the things I've learned over the years is to not just take someone's word on things like 'variations in ingredients don't affect the end result' since sometimes someone gets sneaky and you find an unexpected result or even a bug. :) Plus who knows how things will be expanded in the future--perhaps more variations in final result will be one of the additions. :)

Ok, now for today's fun. Since I had some money and only about 2 hours this morning, I decided to continue on with my checking of the level 3-9 cooking recipes. And I'm now up through level 8 with only level 9 (and the beer based recipes I skipped) to go.

In fact the third from the last level 8 recipe put me into level 10. So once I finished up the last level 8 recipe, I headed on over to the Harbor to talk to the Ironforge guy about becoming something better than just an ordinary Artisan. After a bit of thought, I finally elected to go Scholar as, aside from this little bit on cooking, I spent most of my time working on jewelry items (sometimes I think I'm part ferret--oooh, shinies).

And I ran into a minor bug (which I forgot to report--bad me, I'll have to remedy that tonight) in which after talking to the guy, I didn't actually level up to 10 or get set as a Scholar. I believe Mum had the same problem last night with her level 10 selection. So I tried talking to him again, but he said I was set, so then I tried zoning with no affect. Then as a last thing to try before doing the bug report and calling it lunch (hence why I forgot the report), I did one last recipe, going back and doing a beer based recipe I had skipped. The xp from that combine triggered my transition to level 10 and being a Scholar...which was a relief but it was annoying since you would expect it all to happen when you talked to the guy. :)

And thus ends Grei's morning adventures. Stay tuned later today for even more of Grei's adventurers--and find out if he will finally kill himself and everyone else in Willow Wood with his cooking. ;)

Grei

[Moonshade]

Well sir, we were pacing each other pretty evenly there, but it sounds like your outpacing me. My Predator class quest was pretty tough but I made it on the 3rd try and actually never died once. I did do a couple spectacular train runs to the zone exit though with many bandits in tow. :) That's where I realized that just being stealthed isn't enough. Those darn Mobs can hear you if you walk too fast past them. Tonight I'll try to do more crafting as well. I want to make my other Apprentice 3 upgrades for my most used combat abilities. Maybe you can give me some hints as to where those things are in Antonica to finish up that quest as well. I'm continually amazed at how quest-ful this game is. Seems like everyone I talk to needs something done. I can't wait 'til they get the tradeskill quests going. Hopefully there will be some actual quests and not just tasks.

[Grei]

I still have a bunch of spots in Antonica to find because of this one Tome I had found. But it's sequential not just any order, and I'm hung up on Fippy's Hill, though mainly because gnolls are a bit tough (and most are for groups) for me still. :)

I noticed in going through my recipes now that I'm a Scholar, that I didn't actually get any new upgrades--all of the ones I have were given up through level 9 (and the thing that I found to be odd was that they were level 6 recipes, even though they came from higher level books, so I never even noticed I had them). Most of the stuff I got as a Scholar were Alchemist and Jeweller oriented with a few additional supporting recipes like iron processing.

Grei

[Moonshade]

I would buy the Shaped Sepia Dye (couldn't find any Ink) and make the Ink and go from there as before.

Just in case people are wondering why the vendors don't sell the ink..they do. I had the same problem with chloro oil. I had found 'shaped chloro resin', but no oil. Well, when I actually took the time to scroll all the way down the list, I found a 'vial of chloro oil', and right near that was a 'vial of sepia ink'. Tricky of them to put some things in vials eh? :)

[Grei]

Just in case people are wondering why the vendors don't sell the ink..they do. I had the same problem with chloro oil. I had found 'shaped chloro resin', but no oil. Well, when I actually took the time to scroll all the way down the list, I found a 'vial of chloro oil', and right near that was a 'vial of sepia ink'. Tricky of them to put some things in vials eh? :)
Now I swear that I did look in the vials (I had the same problem until I went through the shaped list one by one when I was looking for the oil), but guess I must've overlooked it. Well, that'll make doing the rest of my upgrades a little easier. :)

Grei

[xirxx]

I don't think all vendors sell everything.... Because I know I bought a shaped vial of sepia ink before and the couldn't find it again...

[Flendon]

Now onto the idea for a new ability (which I already submitted a /feedback on). Basically I've noticed several times that I just miss a better result by one or two pulses and end up with the durability dropping me down to the next lower quality level. So what I suggested as an ability was a one shot per encounter ability to 'freeze' the durability drain for one or two pulses, possibly scaled upwards depending on level of skill. This kind of ability would give us a chance to make a 'last ditch' effort to get the better quality, though of course there still remains a chance for the one or two pulses to not be enough and you drop a level after the effect fades anyway.

Sounds like a great idea to me!

[Grei]

Here's my report for tonight's fun and games (when the game was actually up, that is).

Tonight saw me hit level 11 in both Druid and Scholar...with it going to be a race to see which I level up next. One of the more interesting changes in tonight's patch was the boosting of heals, but critters are also hitting harder now as well. Fights that I used to handle moderately well are now near impossible, even with using HOs.

And speaking of tonight's patch, they added in new 'harvestable' fish to supply the resources needed for cooking seafood (just seafood so far). The fish you want to harvest are 'Cluster of Fish' as opposed to the old ones like 'School of Trout' or whatever they were called. If you harvest the right one, you'll get things like Frog Legs, Coldwind Flounder, and Sunfish.

I finished up going through the culinary recipes thorugh level 9, though I still need to go back and test out the beer based recipes and now seafood based early recipes. I then started on Runecraft recipes, since I'm primarily heading for Jeweler at this time and I came across an interesting thing. The reason why the metalworking buffs don't work on things like Tin Buckles and Tin Studs is because they aren't under metalworking, they're under runecraft. So use your runecraft buffs on them instead and you'll have better luck.

And last but not least, I came across a recipe that requires an Isonold Solution, yet I can't find any recipe or merchant with Isonold Solution on them. I tried Isonold Reagent, but it wasn't a variation so I had no luck. If anyone's got any information, let me know otherwise I'll be reporting it as a bugged recipe.

Grei

[Moonshade]

Congrats on the new levels Grei! I never really got a chance to play last night. I was in for 2 minutes before the patch hit, and never got back in. :( I probably won't be able to play tonight either. I'm pretty busy in RL Tues-Thurs evenings. I'm taking Friday off from work though so I'll get plenty of time in over a long weekend :)

[Grei]

I think levelling as an adventurer is going to slow down alot now. Of course, it's a good balance change...since I was nuking yellows with relative impunity until the patch (only occasionally would a yellow be tough and I'd still finish with power to spare). Though now I need to relearn what I can and can't handle. ;)

Grei

[javalin]

"tempers for level 1-9 are just as expensive to make as it is to buy them from the NPC... so jsut buy them from the NPC, though making some is good for learning the craft, and in the first few levels are decent exp "

i dunno i find it cheaper to make my own since they lowered the cost of water and its definatlly way cheaper to make your own post 10 43 copper compared to 18 copper if you make your own this includes the fuel for one fuel one water combines

numbers may be off slightly but not by much

[Ngreth Thergn]

well... distilled water is 6, candle is 6 = 12 :) The vendor sells for 12c. (though people say there is aerated water around which is cheper... in which case you can save money)

And I did restrict myself to the 1-9 tempers, becasue I knoew that yes it *IS* cheaper 10+ to make your own, or have them made for you asuming the maker will sell lower then the NPC price :)

[Valquiss]

well... distilled water is 6, candle is 6 = 12 :) The vendor sells for 12c. (though people say there is aerated water around which is cheper... in which case you can save money)

And I did restrict myself to the 1-9 tempers, becasue I knoew that yes it *IS* cheaper 10+ to make your own, or have them made for you asuming the maker will sell lower then the NPC price :)

I imagine this is just about set to change, with the success level of "qualityless" (which is to say when quality doesn't actually matter) components going towards dictating the size of batches being produced. It will prove cheaper, almost certainly, to make your own stuff, and perhaps not even brutally annoying.

[Grei]

Well, I'm sure people have been wondering if I've been sick today since I haven't posted anything about my Beta adventures so far. Well, the reason why I haven't posted much of anything is because I first got plagued by the patcher and game not talking correctly, and keeping me from logging in (wasn't until around 3:30 or so when suddenly the patcher decided it had to patch and things started working again) and then, of course, all of the many many many server ups and downs and sideways and crashes and locks and you name it. :)

So that basically covers it all. :) Unless there's been a serious rollback right at the end, I'm pretty close to being a level 12 Scholar and only halfway through 11 Druid. Added a few things to the thread on resources and such, but overall it's just been a relatively unproductive day.

With any luck, the devs will get the stability issues ironed out while I sleep (sometimes I have to wonder when the last time they got any sleep was--I've done the 36 hour system fix thing before, it wasn't fun) and tomorrow will be a more productive day.

Grei

[Moonshade]

I sure noticed that Grei, I wasn't planning on even turning on the computer last night, but the lure of EQ2 got the better of me. I didn't get started 'til after 11PM central. I got back into Oakmyst for about 10 minutes before crashing to the char select screen. Then I couldn't log back in to that character because it said the zone was unavailable. I made a new guy who will be a Freeporter Mage, Magaar, who I ended up playing the rest of the night. Even the IoR was crashy and after the 2nd time, I gave it up.

One interesting note on trades since patch. The early levels go by very quick. I did the trades quest on IoR and got pristine on both the bar and the spike. After finishing that quest I was a level 5 Artisan already! The refining went by very quick and no events came up at all.

On non-trade things, I don't usually play Mage types that much, but it was really fun zapping Goblins and things. I may have to change my ways. :D

[Drucilla]

On non-trade things, I don't usually play Mage types that much, but it was really fun zapping Goblins and things. I may have to change my ways. :D

OMG pets rock! Ok I know they may be tweeked and need some attention but it's really really cool running around as a Dark Elf with my little bug sidekick. Zapping is fun. :D

[Grei]

Well, today's report is going to be short and sweet. First off, things were much more stable...only had 4 crashes affect me. So I spent alot of time in the game.

But I didn't spend a whole lot of it crafting. Made some backpacks (2 pristine, 3 average) to expand out my storage some and I finished up the 3-9 runecrafting recipes. Did a bunch of lower level quests early on, since I was bored and decided to clean up my journal some (except when I finally called it quits, I had even more quests than when I started).

Actually, I didn't exactly call it quits so much as got caught up in the lag in Antonica which deterred me from finishing up the quest I was working on at the time. So I switched to running around harvesting things when Mum and Ngreth came across me. They took me into their group and we ran around completing their quests and my quests and some we even started on the spot and all in all, had alot of fun.

I hit level 12 Druid while questing with Mum and Ngreth, and hit level 12 Scholar while I was working on my packs pretty much balancing out my professions (I know, I know, I said I'd rather work on just crafting, but resources are too useful and this is beta, so I need to test all that I can). The evening was spent in Antonica, hunting and harvesting until I got bored with that and decided to try to upgrade one of my newer nukes. Managed to do so, though using storebought ingredients it came out crude though still useable.

And that wraps things up. I finally broke down and bought a market board for my home, and I'm testing it out by selling off a Pristine Tin Pommel that I made during my runecraft recipe tests as well as some maple I harvested since people seem to think it's in demand (don't know why though, I seem to harvest it up easily).

Grei

[Drucilla]

I'm stuck at 12 scholar right now. I've not confirmed this but friend of mine tells me that leveling in the Scholar teens is really hard when missing the dropped book 11 (which I am).

I noticed you hit 12 scholar Grei, I'm interested to see how you progress since I don't see a whole lot of options for myself atm.

[DeWeasel]

I'm at 12 Scholar too (aren't we a well-read bunch :) ), and I was going to continue leveling by making AppIII scrolls. I see people asking for App III this or that all the time, so I'm hoping they'll sell well. Not sure how fast the exp will come though. Anyways, plan on working on this tonight and tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.

I still haven't found any scholar dropped recipe books :( But playtime has been limited this week.

[Grei]

I'm stuck at 12 scholar right now. I've not confirmed this but friend of mine tells me that leveling in the Scholar teens is really hard when missing the dropped book 11 (which I am).

I noticed you hit 12 scholar Grei, I'm interested to see how you progress since I don't see a whole lot of options for myself atm.
I'm over halfway through 12 right now. Mainly I've just been doing one of everything to test all of the recipes. The xp is getting less and less, especially on the low level recipes, but there's so many recipes it all adds up. :)

I'm actually getting more xp per hour as an Artisan than I was as an Adventurer. I only did a few combines and jumped from only 5% up to 55% (the 2 pristine and 3 average backpacks), which took me about 30 minutes altogether. To go that same distance soloing as a Druid took me about 2 hours.

I'm also working on finishing up my spell upgrades--still got 2 of those left to make when I have the money.

Grei

[Grei]

I'm at 12 Scholar too (aren't we a well-read bunch :) ), and I was going to continue leveling by making AppIII scrolls. I see people asking for App III this or that all the time, so I'm hoping they'll sell well. Not sure how fast the exp will come though. Anyways, plan on working on this tonight and tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.

I still haven't found any scholar dropped recipe books :( But playtime has been limited this week.
I have a feeling that Scholar is a very popular path right now because alot of people want to make their upgrades instead of buying them. Especially if they get one of the book drops (which I still haven't seen--yet I've gotten nearly a full set of iron armor over the last few days in drops which I can't use at all) since that might tempt them over to the dark side of Artisan.

I'm still going to be focused more on the jewelry making than the scrollmaking, though Scholar actually covers both plus chemistry and so far I haven't heard of any books that drop with rare jewelry recipes for the aspiring jewelcrafter.

Grei

[DeWeasel]

I'm still going to be focused more on the jewelry making than the scrollmaking, though Scholar actually covers both plus chemistry and so far I haven't heard of any books that drop with rare jewelry recipes for the aspiring jewelcrafter.

Yeah, long-term I'm going Alchemist. I'm making the scrolls mostly in the hopes of turning a quick silver or two, and for the exp ;)

[Grei]

Forgot to post something last night, but figured I'd best wrap this up since it's been a week of Beta for me. :) With starting a new job (and having to work 'normal' hours for the first time in 7 years), I don't know how much time I'll have for EQ2 this next week, so Moonshade should finally get ahead of me again. ;)

Yesterday I spent the morning waiting on the servers...if it wasn't all of the servers down because of the scheduled maintenance, then it was the darn 'Waiting for the login server' bug. When I finally did get in, I didn't have a whole lot of time left, so I chased Moonshade down to give him his birthday present and then worked on a few quests before returning home to try to sell stuff.

Last night, when I got back on, it was more of the same. Spent an hour or so going through all of the 3-10 chemistry recipes, which wasn't that big a deal as nearly all of them are commonly used in making upgrade scrolls or armor or weapons, so I doubted I'd find any bugs in the recipes.

After that, I tried to finish up a few more quests in Antonica--managed to find Fippy's Hill before the zone crashed. When the zone came back up, I started heading for the bell before I decided to take a sidetrip and check the gryphons out and see how much it'd cost to ride them.

Well, I found out that at least last night, there was no cost to ride them. And let me tell you, they're one heck of a ride. There's still one segment that I didn't ride last night, but I did check out 2 out of the 3 and you get to see alot of the sights of Antonica while flying through. I did run into a patch of lag which really caused the flight to turn into a rollercoaster ride, but considering the price I couldn't exactly complain. :)

After that, I set up my merchant again and called it a night (had a new book to read--which kept me up much too late anyway). And the server crashed or something about 20 minutes later...so it really didn't do much good. ;)

I'll post a bit on my impressions in a little bit...need more caffiene to wake up enough to make sense.

Grei

[Moonshade]

Well my night went well overall; fewer crashes and oddly enough, almost lag free in the city zones! I attained some more levels as you can see in my sig. I will be a whittler once the game goes live, but for beta I thought I'd try Outfitter, since I haven't really heard that mentioned much around here. Grei and I compared notes on recipes and found that the crafter inter-dependance starts at level 10! To make an iron sword, I need a pommel that only scholars can make. Yet only Outfitters can make the iron bars to make into pommels. I really think we need to form an EQ2 Traders guild so we can trade goods for the common good, or something like that. Otherwise, everyone should come to the Willow Wood trades area to craft, because half elves and wood elves rock. :)