Well, 4 deaths yesterday...

[Laeelin]

When useing my Alchemist mule, I click combine on my wifes computer every few min while crafting on my computer.

I've never died doing that.
I've never died doing tailoring.
I've never died doing anything other than smithing

In fact, even smithing, i've never died on anything that didnt use weaponsmithing.

Of my deaths yesterday, 3 were from lag (i'm stuck on dialup), and 1 was from hitting the wrong key.

Are any other craftskills like this, or is weaponsmithing the only really bad one? (I know you can die with any, but weaponsmithing is far worse from what i've saw)

Are any other skills that deadly?
Any word on fixing it?
Or do they plan on keeping it this deadly? (I dont have a problem with this as long as they dont wait for me to get to 50 and then fix it)

[Dafydd]

Thanks for posting about your death from hitting the wrong keys. My daughter keeps dieing at the forge and I keep telling her she can just mash buttons while smithing like she can with other devices but she doesn't she insist on mashing a bunch of buffs indescriminatly. Glad I have someone elses testimony now to point out to her.

Thanks

[Laeelin]

I made ~500 tempers/resins/washes/oils yesterday while reading -- didnt die once (just clicking begin on the next when one would finish)

I made 20 Iron Bars yesterday and died 3 times -- NOT reading, paying attention (Note: I was lagging though)

BTW, the bars were one level from grey, and the tempers/washes/resins/oils were white when i started.

[Valaglar]

I noticed today that the reaction to events are far less forgiving than previously. If ANY buff is in queue when the event happens then that buff will go with the event (and you have to pray it is the correct one). Also, unless it is just me, I noticed that the 2nd level buffs no longer work to counter an event. Died once on an Iron Bar, and pretty darn close many more times. Makes doing any combos nearly life threatening.

[Ixnay]

I agree this is unreasonable. No other tradeskill takes deaths like this except smiths. The problem is this: the forge harmtouch increases every level, or somehow maintains proportion to your health, so you can't outgrow it. If you use the forge as I do, which is to rapidly spam certain buffs when durability is going in the toilet to try and maintain pristine based on intuition and experience, there will be a buff in queue when the critical failure icon pops up in your window, and even if you try and immediately respond to that potential impending disaster, it is too late, because only the FIRST buff after the icon appears will effectively counter that crit failure.

So I know that I can take one White Hot Metal or similar forge harmtouch, but two in a row will kill me everytime. These land on me now for over 800 damage. After my first harmtouch in the combine, I have to decide whether to back off my buff spamming to avoid a forge death and lose pristine on the item, or go for it and take the risk. I usually go for it.

My pristine rate has risen dramatically based on my intuitive methods, and it falls dramatically when I become more "careful". I average a forge death every 6 to 8 hours of tradeskilling. About 20 percent of my total in game deaths are due to the forge. To add insult to injury, I have to pay the armor mender for each death as if it were to a mob - and I think my mender fees are getting close to 10 silver per death.

One of two things is needed. Either allow ANY effective counter cast during the tick that the crit failure icon is up to ACTUALLY counter the crit failure, or reduce the forge harmtouch amount so I can at least take 3 crit failure direct hits instead of dying everytime on two as I do now.

Thanks

[Laeelin]

One of two things is needed. Either allow ANY effective counter cast during the tick that the crit failure icon is up to ACTUALLY counter the crit failure, or reduce the forge harmtouch amount so I can at least take 3 crit failure direct hits instead of dying everytime on two as I do now.


Yeah..

If it wasnt for the fact that the tradeskill system is designed to have you spamming buffs this wouldnt be as bad... But Like you, I spam buffs till i get hit by anything, and then it's a choice of, no spamming till i'm healed and lose that pristine, or take a GOOD chance of dieing...

not counting the LD froge deaths =)

[Moonshade]

This is due to a change made by the devs quite a while back. The death-by-crafting syndrome used to happen at every station. They adjusted it so damaging events were a little more in line with the type of apparatus being used. Therefore, forge events cause more hp damage, loom events cause less but more durability damage, etc. Actually it used to make me laugh to think of getting killed because of an embroidery mishap. :)

[PhantomCleric]

Could be worse, how about death by caligraphy? You always hear about those careless scribes found dead hunched over their half penned scroll. ;)

[Korsis]

Solution? Don't mash buttons.

I'm not saying don't use buffs, I'm just saying pay attention to what you're doing. New events only pop up on the tradeskill tick, which is a little over 3 seconds. This is also the same time that your progress/durability bars change. There is *easily* enough time to hit three buffs in each cycle and then pause to see if there is an event to respond to. If you think you need to twist more than 3 buffs to get pristine, then you need to take a serious look at what buffs you are using and eliminate some of the less useful ones.

I'm a 22 armorer, but I levelled through a good portion of outfitter making the weapons to look at the stats (even got server discovery on the pristine iron spear, yay!). I have never once, ever, died to the forge. You just have to be aware and be ready to react.

[Ixnay]

Getting a same level pristine in weapons is significantly more difficult than armor. Weapons vs. armor strats are not a good comparison. As an outfitter, I noticed that I could easily get a pristine every time doing a leather or chain combine three levels higher than mine, but it was extremely difficult to get a same level weapon pristine. Why? Because our counters/buffs lack the ability to reliably increase durability. With any leather combine I've done, I've been able to work the buffs so that the combine ended up at 100% durability when progress was complete. I was able to do close to the same for chain. But you just can't do this with weapons, it doesn't work.

I use as many as five buffs at once on saves and trying to maintain pristine. My pristine rate is higher than anyone I know on my server. I am the only weaponsmith on my server that appears to be selling large quantities of carbonite weapons, because the only ones I sell are pristine, and I'm selling 25ish each day. I sell all non-pristines (failures) to the vendor for 12 sp. So this is a big deal to me and I really think I'm doing this the best way it can be done, for me at least.

[Korsis]

Getting a same level pristine in weapons is significantly more difficult than armor. Weapons vs. armor strats are not a good comparison.

Yes, I agree, which is why I didn't do that. I was using my experience in weapon-crafting. The sort of thing you're describing was not necessary for crafting iron weapons. I know, I did it myself. Now if it becomes necessary in tier 3 for carbonite weapons, then that's another matter.

I'll take your word for it that it becomes a serious problem. It is not a serious problem in armoring or alchemy (the two crafts where I do have experience in tier3). I propose that if this is a problem, it is a problem with your buffs not being up to par with the other trades, not a problem with the crafting system in general. I will not support any solution that supports "button mashing"--I think needing the correct counter at the correct time is more than fair. I think the damage that the forge does is fair; I like there being some very real risk to the process. But if you want to suggest that weaponcrafting buffs need to be retuned, I have no complaint against that.

[Laeelin]

New events only pop up on the tradeskill tick, which is a little over 3 seconds.

I didnt know that, thats godo to hear, and will be a help, but when I say "i spam buffs" i'm talking about the 2-4 buffs that are the best ones for where the item is standing..

That will help a lot most of the time though. (when i'm not lagging)

As already mention, weaponsmithing is not like the other crafts i've tried (one of the reason i picked it) .. Lack of duribility increasing buffs can really hurt =) .. not that we dont have any, but we dont have very many good ones.

[Bleach]

If you are using 5 buffs you might be using too many. With many of the buffs they increase progress and decress durability or increase durability at the cost of progress or power, the last one is at a lower chance of success. I was going to look up what your teir3 buffs do but the site does not have the info filled in yet.

In any case if some of your buffs increase progress at the cost of durability you might want to hold off until you get your durability back up to a comforable level. Losing progress just makes it take longer, but if you are stubborn enough you can probably get it back up. If you are losing durability to a large number of poor ticks and you are using a buff to increase durability at the cost of success then you might want to hold off on that buff for a couple of ticks and just use ones that cost power and progress until you are back up to a comforable level.

I have found that with no lag the most I can use it 5 buffs between ticks. I used to have a lot of trouble getting pristines in chemestry and fletching when just spaming buffs, however I found the magic set of buffs that lead to a generally increasing progress and durability. I almost always finish with my durability bar at somewhere off the top of the chart, it might take me longer but I am willing to work it until I get what I want.

I had one maple strong box I lost pristine on 5-6 times before finishing it as a pristine. I really was working the buffs that time. =J

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

Solution? Don't mash buttons.

I'm not saying don't use buffs, I'm just saying pay attention to what you're doing. Totally correct. I am not as high a level as Ixnay is I think but I have made it to level 23 as a weaponsmith and have NEVER EVER died at the forge. I have taken my share of hits but NEVER a death.

And Ixnay is 100% on with regards to how hard it is to make pristine weapons. I, as has EVERY tradeskiller in my guild, have noticed a marked increase in the 'bad result' rate in ALL tradeskills since we hit level 20. Even things I could literally make in my sleep BEFORE level 20 without a SINGLE bad result round are now regularly giving me one to 4 almost every combine.

I use 4-5 buttons when working Carbonite. 4 on ingots that I can use for very little power that make them fast and with minimal Dur loss. 5 on weapons at time when I am trying to maximise success chances in addition to the other 4 I use normally. That said I, I did 99 Carbonite bars in a row last night at 22 and made 85 Pristine, 14 Shaped, at level 22.

Compared to Iron bars that I was able to make 100 out of 100 pristine at level 13.

(No 99 carbonite bars will not level you from 22-23 but it is darn close).

I was going to look up what your teir3 buffs do but the site does not have the info filled in yet.


Tier 1
Anneal: +Small Progress, -X Power
Tempering: +Med Progress, - 2X Power
Hardening: +Small Progress, - small Durability

Tier 2
Indurate: +5 Durability, - X Power
Strengthen: +Success Chance, - 2X Power
Vitrify: +5 Durability, -20 Progress

Tier 3
Modling: +Small Progress, - X Power (note this read identical to Anneal but with a higher con color)
Toughen: +Small Progress, -Small amount of Success Rate
Set: + Large Progress, -Small Durability

Note that X is always a certain percentage of your power score. X is a constant in all the posts above. Points where it says 2X is exactly that, double the power cost of X. So if Indurate costs me say 18 power, Strenghethen costs me 36 power.

you might want to hold off until you get your durability back up to a comforable level.Rebuilding lost durability simply is not an option in weaponsmithing up to level 29. The MOST durability you can add with all the abilities is 10. Which will counter the normal loss per round or, at the very best, add back ten on a -0 +100 success round. Given how often those occur on Blue or white recipes, you can in no way count on them.

Now I hear that at 30 we get some nice + durability mods for our new skill set but I have seen no concrete info on this at all. I am very much hoping it is true and I can try an make weapons as good, fast and easily as I did chainmail armor back in my teens.

[Ixnay]

Gilf, you will be pleased to know that at level 27, you will be able to get pristine on at least 99 out of 100 carbonite bars in your sleep. You may be less than pleased to know you will only get a tiny amount of exp for doing so.

People who are not weaponsmiths just do not understand how hard it is to get a pristine compared to other classes. I have said over and over, at 16 I had no problem getting a 100% pristine rate on level 19 leather and chain combines. But at 20, you cannot reliably make Pristine Iron Greatswords, a level 15 recipe. And it only gets harder from there.

But I am very pleased with my pristine rates compared to other weaponsmiths I talk to. Last night, half the new level 27 Carbonite Greatswords I forged ended up as pristine, and I am happily selling those on my trader now, and this has made me a very popular person.

I realize my methods in using the buffs/counters are not conventional, but I am simply unable (ADD) to pay attention to numbers and such when the green durability bar has almost completely disappeared from the pristine window, as it does every combine.

But at 27, I am also please to report that I can get 80 to 90 percent pristines on the level 22 combines, so maybe the solution is to only try and make items five levels below me, I dunno.

Thanks

[Belwolf]

i use strengthen idurite molding and vitirfy at 28 most of the time and have seen an increase in pristines on most weapons. now that may use up alot of power but those 4 work. bars spikes crossguards and edges are easy enough but the actual weapon requires those 4. lastnight i made 3 pristine longswords in a row and a few rapiers but sabres are a PITA. some weapons are easier than others eventhough they have the same con :confused:

for those who don't think i am doing it right i have 60-70% success on pristines and a nice apartment in qenyos harbor :D :cool:

i died a few times figuring things out but rarely die and make sure to use battle tactics, a berserker buff, to add extra hitpoints before making a weapon LOL :p

[Korsis]

i died a few times figuring things out but rarely die and make sure to use battle tactics, a berserker buff, to add extra hitpoints before making a weapon LOL :p

When the forge hits you, it does a percentage of your total health. Now I haven't tested this myself, but I was under the impression that it was a percentage of your current total, not your unbuffed total. Which would mean that buffing does nothing. I'll test that out myself tomorrow.

[Gilfalas Elaandrin]

Gilf, you will be pleased to know that at level 27, you will be able to get pristine on at least 99 out of 100 carbonite bars in your sleep. You may be less than pleased to know you will only get a tiny amount of exp for doing so.Yeah I expected that. Bars were about 2% XP at 22 for pristine. I can only assume it will continue to drop. But I need them so I have to make them (I am sure you understand hehe).

I did a massive amount of weapon making last night (ding 24! WOOT! love making something of everything) and created about 25 various weapons. Of those 25, all were white or blue recipes that were at most 2 levels less than me.

I made 3 non pristine, total.

One was a Carbonite morningstar. I made it forged on the first try (tier 3) and pristine on the second (which is bugged and therefore I lost my ingredients an got nothing but the XP for the effort, which frankly was fine since leveling was my primary goal).v The froged went to a guild cleric as it was still a big upgrade over what she had.

One was a Carbonite Battlehammer. It was going bad from the start and I went to cancel it before it completed the first line but I was distracted in RL and it completed crude JUST as I hit stop. Gave it to my level 14 Cleric Dwarf alt who loves it. Was a bug upgrade for him too hehe.

One was a Carbonite Crescent Axe which just WOULD NOT make pristine, hehe, and honestly ended up forged.

Even with the inability to add back durability, careful crafting and the ability to spot bad starts early and cancel them can go a LONG way in making your pristine rate much better.

2/3 of the weapons I crafted went to my guild last night and I was never as gratified as I was last night by the reactions from guildmates who recieved them. :D

The rest I put up for sale (made a lot of extra DWable weapons as they seem to sell very well on Antonia Bayel).

Was a very, very gratifying night. Too bad so many of our 23 and 24 recipes are bugged. I did not even attempt the HTH weapons as our tailor was not on to make the leather items I need and I read here that the recipes are bugged. I know the monrningstar was.

Hopefully next weeks 'big patch' will fix them. and hopefully I will get to a level soon where I can do swords and upgrade MY weaponry! ;)

[Laeelin]

New events only pop up on the tradeskill tick


That ended up being what i needed to konw =)

I thought that they could pop up at anytime, so as i pressed a buff it would flash "white hot metal" and kill me ... now that i know to do nothing on the tic, i only die from lagging out.. and have not lagged that badly again yet =)

[Belwolf]

Gilfalas how the hell did ya get 22 outta 25 weaponsmiths pristine? i can't seem to get success rates over 80% on most nights, or any night. now it may be that the higher ya go the harder it gets and i didn't worry much until i hit 25 because the firged market was good and all i wanted was a few decent upgrades lol. now i push for pristines and have headaches with only 60-70% success, ofcourse i don't let people know some weapons are a piece of cake :P

[LufaLynx]

My Jewelcrafter got creamed on this making shods. Now I just hire a healer. Fortunately my JC is only level 7 adventure so since the damage is % based a wimpy templar heal is all it takes to heal to full.

Still, it is true. You only die at the forge. Its sort of stupid that primary components are stuck in other classes. I mean, a plate... Why would an armorer need to go to a weaponsmith for a plate? I guess maybe if you REALLY had the stretch of imagination a plate could be used for an axe head. Oh well. Its a fantasy game. 2 + 2 can = 5 and smiths can't make metal bars.

Lufa