How do I make money as an alchemist?

[Artaud Terranova]

I am now a lvl 12 scholar and moving fast and wondering something. I had originally planned to become a sage, but a lvl 21 sage I know told me not to do it. Too much dependancy, not enough people buying app3 spells because of common adept1 books. So, I'm considering a jeweler or an alchemist.

Alchemist sounds cooler. *IS* cooler. I'm a sorcerer, and really - I want to be come kind of a scholar, and while an alchemist doesn't really fit my view of a wizard it does that of a warlock.

My question, though, is: how does one make money as an alchemist? I'd imagine selling app3 mele skills won't net you much, same problem as with spells. A jeweler obviously makes tons of cash making jewelry. What does an alchemist do? Sell a tier3 resin at 2 silver while a jeweler sells a tier3 ring at 2 gold? Is it worth it? Do lvl 20+ alchemists make money, and how do you guys do it?

[Morie]

Yes, you can make money as an alchemist. And yes, your bread and butter will be tempers/oils/resins. They are profitable because you're selling large quantities of them. I'd say my average order size is about 8 stacks worth of goods, but of course that varies.

Alchemists do I high volume, low cost business.

[Davril]

Theoretically, it seems that Alchemists should also be able to make some money off of the various elixirs and poisons they can craft. There is currently a three-part problem with this idea.

1) Even with all the compiling people are doing on this board, we still don't have a clue what many of the potions do.

2) Assuming the alchemist finds out what a potion will do, how will the customer know? With no system in place to add personal descriptions to sale items, and no data on potion effects in their "Examine" screens, the chances of J. Random Adventurer going to the time and effort required to look up potion effects offline before buying them online seem to be somewhere between slim and none.

3) I assume this one, at least, will get fixed fairly quickly. As things stand, the potions that an Alchemist can make seem quite weak compared to the potions that NPC merchants offer for sale.

Later,
Davril

[Morie]

From your mouth (or fingers) to God's ear. Unfortunately, I doubt it will happen soon.

[Artaud Terranova]

One thing that worries me is that alchemist is needed by every single tradeskiller out there, save provisioners. This means that there won't be enough alchemists around which leads to people making alchemist alts to fill their needs. Once there are enough alchemist alts running around, those of us who choose alchemist as their own profession will end up without a market, or struggling to break even.

[Kbern]

I dont think there will ever not be a need for your goods.

To be honest, I hope many people make more alts for that. In the long run, can you imagine someone trying to harvest for their main crafter, and their alt, and adventure, and level the alt with the main crafter to keep it making the same tier ingredients...

If someone has the patience and the time to do all, all the more power to them IMHO.

[Spanners]

Once there are enough alchemist alts running around, those of us who choose alchemist as their own profession will end up without a market, or struggling to break even.

Then work in reverse and level an alt to use the products your main makes to produce items that will make you a profit?

Pretty much see Alchemist class ending up as the tradeskiller equivalent of the KEI bot if we're not carefull.

Agree very strongly with the point about lack of info on potions - that's just plain daft and I can't understand how the developers could have left such vital information off the examine script.

Another point.... why do our buffs draw so much mana compared to other tradeskills? When I produce spells I can spam the buff buttons to blazes and my power bar hardly flickers. Yet a single pristine alchemy item will often see my entire power drained and I risk running out of power before the end if I'm not very, very carefull on how I use the alchemy buffs. I've read the power consumption figures for each class and no other class has such heavy power draining buffs, why us?

[Kbern]

Why us?

Well my time foil hat wearing side says it is because if we are slowed down, so are all other crafters, and more control of the economy. :p

[Seadion]

Another point.... why do our buffs draw so much mana compared to other tradeskills? When I produce spells I can spam the buff buttons to blazes and my power bar hardly flickers. Yet a single pristine alchemy item will often see my entire power drained and I risk running out of power before the end if I'm not very, very carefull on how I use the alchemy buffs. I've read the power consumption figures for each class and no other class has such heavy power draining buffs, why us?

Might be agility based???
atm im a lvl 22 swash/24alch and ever since i started tradeskilling ive never ran out of power on combines. Might just be me though :)

[Kentamanos]

Might be agility based???
atm im a lvl 22 swash/24alch and ever since i started tradeskilling ive never ran out of power on combines. Might just be me though :)

Are you actually "twisting" (to borrow what I believe is an EQ1 bard term) the buffs to keep them constantly up or just doing reactions? Because on the other tradeskills, you can just keep 3 buffs up at all time (NOTE: this isn't always the best method to approach an item, just saying...).

[Zendaken]

Might be agility based???
atm im a lvl 22 swash/24alch and ever since i started tradeskilling ive never ran out of power on combines. Might just be me though :)
Before opening that can of worms, note that we have been told that ability scores do nothing for tradeskills. Likely it is just your skill growing, in both skill points and using abilities.

[DanielShawn]

Another point.... why do our buffs draw so much mana compared to other tradeskills? When I produce spells I can spam the buff buttons to blazes and my power bar hardly flickers. Yet a single pristine alchemy item will often see my entire power drained and I risk running out of power before the end if I'm not very, very carefull on how I use the alchemy buffs. I've read the power consumption figures for each class and no other class has such heavy power draining buffs, why us?

The major power drainers are your t2 durability enhancing buffs. See the advanded tradeskill guide on the eq2players.com board.

Synthesis is the real killer, costing 83 power. My newest formula for Alchemy combines includes spamming Assay, Conceptualize, and Analyze. That's one t3 progress buff and two t2 durablity buffs. You should be able to use that combination until the end of the run without running out of power. If you need to counter, use a t3 progress buff to counter, and then follow up with Conceptualize and Analyze. Then switch back to A, C, A.

Not all crafting buffs are made equal. In t2 scribing buffs you gain durability at the cost of progress or sucess chance and these cost no power. I would much rather give power, a replenishable resource, than either progress or sucess chance. That's like working backward.

Because you're a scholar we can't speak to the Craftsman and Outfitter t2 buffs, so they may be equally unbalanced. We have a good deal, here, however, if you apply them correctly =).

[Ausversucht]

Actually, I've played with all 3 sets of tier 2 buffs. I would say that the Alchemists really do get the shaft on the terms of buffs.

I can crank out a stack of pristine stretched leather with my outfitter in 1/2 the time (or less) than my friend can get out 20 pristine combines on the chem table. I think it is partially influenced by the yields (which in my opinion should actually be INCREASED) but not all chem table recipes, even refines, produce multiple items. Poor way of balancing things, and just makes things even more painful for the alchemists.

[Amaranthe]

Oh I dunno... when you get to 20, and get the 3rd set of buffs you can pretty much cycle them indefinately and get a pristine in 4-5 cycles. That's pretty quick.

Of course, if you have a couple bad rounds you are stuck with our tier 2 buffs to rebuild durability, which goes painfully slow :(

[DavDarkelf]

At 21 it gets easier as you get your progress abilities upgraded. And with a good drink it is easy to churn out stuff

[fausta]

Oh I dunno... when you get to 20, and get the 3rd set of buffs you can pretty much cycle them indefinately and get a pristine in 4-5 cycles. That's pretty quick.

Of course, if you have a couple bad rounds you are stuck with our tier 2 buffs to rebuild durability, which goes painfully slow

Dunno also. As there is no item quality difference in our alchemy products the only difference making pristines instead of normal vials is one (1) extra yield. If an alchemist has to delay production (use +dur buffs) that might cost him the time to refine another raw ingredient. Time = money, so you might cost yourself even using +dur buffs, presuming sufficient influx of raw ingredients.
This alchemist lvl 37 (atm) only uses one T3 and one T1 buf for production of vials (temper/wash/oil/resin). If working on order, this alchemist says to the customer that one stack raw equals 75 product, which is almost always OK with the customer. And if they want 80 vials, thats possible, but a certain extra cost has to be reckoned with :D :D (In that case I still only use progress buttons and add the difference in produced vials). This way of working also ends our pain and misery in the dark craft cellar asap.

Walking outside, after a heavy alchemist session in our punishment cellar, leads to one of my best feelings in EQ2: Flora on, model details maxed, and then...I feel it...... THE AIR!

[Solarax Manastorm]

well sages want pristine inks only as they use them for skilling up.

as a 28 alchem i get more business than i can handle
oh runnyeye inks ( tier3 ) sell no less than 20sp each but are a real pain to do because all your combines need to be pristine except your resins and total start to finish you have to have 1 resin 1 oil 2 washes per agate or gold used for 1 ink so thats 6 steps. i often find they are paying for our time on inks and not for the product.

lvl 27 seemed like hell lvl btw . no scientific evidence or anything just took forever

[Artaud Terranova]

That's true, making inks just plain sucks. I make my money on thylakoids/tempers at tier3, most or all of my stocks tends to sell out within 1-2 hours of putting it up for sale (I sell on Oggok, at 2sp each).

I make inks on special order but never charge less than 25sp each. They're such a pain in the arse to make that I'm perfectly happy letting customers look for them somewhere else if they're not willing to pay while I only produce ones I need to skill up.

[fausta]

oh runnyeye inks ( tier3 ) sell no less than 20sp each but are a real pain to do because all your combines need to be pristine except your resins and total start to finish you have to have 1 resin 1 oil 2 washes per agate or gold used for 1 ink so thats 6 steps. i often find they are paying for our time on inks and not for the product.

Oh yes, true.

BTW #1, it is 2 wash + 1 oil for each ink.

BTW #2, use metal if you want to make pristines. So gold, velium, diamondine. The gems (agate, opaline, bloodstone) are fragile and break to quick.

BTW #3, the T5 math. Take 2 stacks of raw. Make inks, 80 combines ending with about 20 inks. Sell them to vendor. Pocket about 20 gp. Now take another 2 stacks of raw. Fast-produce oil/resin/wash/temper. 40 combines ending with about 150 vials. Sell those to vendor. Pocket about 16 gp. Difference is 40 combines. Being paid 4 extra gp for an extra 40 combines is no good: Combining a stack of raw is priced at a minimum of 5 gp. Thats 20 combines. So making inks out of 2 raw stacks instead of vials is 40 combines more, so that needs to sell to players for 10 gp extra over ink vendor price. That makes player price for T5 inks about 30 gp a stack. Add some sp for the annoyance of making them. Conclude that every alchemist not selling T5 inks at 2 gp a piece is devaluating his own efforts/time or giving money away.

BTW #4, about the T5 combine price of 50 sp and about giving money away when combining a T5 stack raw for less then 5 gp: If you do that, players can buy T5 raws at 3 gp a stack, let you combine them and then they sell the whole batch of products to the vendor for around 8 gp for every stack of raw prodcuts. So 5 gp is the absolute minimum you have to charge for 20 combines T5 raws. This sets your base T5 combine price at 50 sp, and this is a minimum.

BTW #5, I am rambling, But then, servers are down so cant help that.

:p :p

[JuneauCB]

The fluid market will dry up eventually (no pun intended -- well ok maybe a little bit), because (a) people will stop tradeskilling and (b) tradeskill societies will eventually level up to the point where all fluids will be available in unlimited quantities on the vendors.

Eventually, only inks will sell (to sages) as people level up alts and want App3 spells and arts for the ones that don't have Adept 1s on Broker in plentiful quantities. Hopefully at that point they will have made player-made potions and poisons viable enough to sell. Since they are consumable, there will always be a need for them. That's assuming players will actually care enough to buy those and not just go without or buy the ones sold by NPC's in convenient locations.

[harvyst]

I don't think people will stop tradeskilling. It's rather fun :)

It will probably not be the same people tradeskilling, but there will be fresh blood to replace the old.

[Norrurra]

The fluid market will dry up eventually (no pun intended -- well ok maybe a little bit), because (a) people will stop tradeskilling and (b) tradeskill societies will eventually level up to the point where all fluids will be available in unlimited quantities on the vendors.

Eventually, only inks will sell (to sages) as people level up alts and want App3 spells and arts for the ones that don't have Adept 1s on Broker in plentiful quantities. Hopefully at that point they will have made player-made potions and poisons viable enough to sell. Since they are consumable, there will always be a need for them. That's assuming players will actually care enough to buy those and not just go without or buy the ones sold by NPC's in convenient locations.

a) Not going to happen... kind of like saying people will stop adventuring.

b) Maybe eventually, but lets lookat a few things. I am going to assume societies level at the same rate as adventurers and tradeskills. In other works each level will more difficult then the previous. Currently the highest soceities are what lvl 13-15. Think back to you early adv/ts days. How long did it take to level to lvl 13-15. You could probably do that in a good weekend. How long did it take to become lvl 50... well not many of us around but let me tell yo it took me 6-8 hours of grinding a day for 2 months. After teir 3 I did very little gathering myself because it was taking away from ts grinding and I could purchase the raws. My point is tradeskill societies are not grinding 6-8 hours a day. I doubt many, if any ts soc. have even 1 person grinding like that on ts quests. I am confident it will take many moons before any of the soc. will reach 30, not to mention 40 or 50. Anoth point is that the soc. will probably lvl like guilds. In other words if people do not "feed the machine" then the guild/soc will delevel. Just my thoughts.

[Zendaken]

Vague bubbling in the back of my mind says they took the decay away from tradeskill societies. Nothing to support that just now, so take it as a rumor. :D

[Davril]

1) Even with all the compiling people are doing on this board, we still don't have a clue what many of the potions do.

2) Assuming the alchemist finds out what a potion will do, how will the customer know?

3) As things stand, the potions that an Alchemist can make seem quite weak compared to the potions that NPC merchants offer for sale.


Well, here we are a month later and 1) and 2) have pretty much been taken care of. Apparently there are still some problems at the high end, but down here at lowly 21st Level, the improvements far outweigh them.

I haven't tried actually selling potions yet, but at least now the buying public can get a vague idea of what's for sale. And some of it turns out to be pretty sweet, if you ask me. Selling "thorn" shields to tanks should be pretty easy, and our versions of "Breeze in a Bottle" should compete well with advanced drinks.

I figured out part of problem 3). The potions I was making were much lower level than my adventuring class level, so they showed up as grey to me.

I still don't understand all these potions based on rare components. I've never had my hands on a pile of silver-based loam, yet I could make a dozen different potions in the bottle it would produce.

Later,
Davril
21 Alchemist / 23 Warden of Kithicor