I despise being forced to stay logged on...

[Omellette]

...in order to sell any wares I might want to offer.

Why was this done? I don't see any benefit whatsoever. I assume that it was to mirror the Bazaar idea in EQ1, but it just seems silly to me.

At least in EQ1, all I had to be was logged in. I didn't have to park my toon in my room and sit there, waiting for something to sell.

Between this and the Tier I harvesting fiasco (I FINALLY got past 40 in all skills other than Trapping, which can kiss my royal buttocks), it's really turned me off on the crafting idea. At least for now...

I need to step away, and just do some Adventuring for a while. Which is sad, because I truly enjoy the process of crafting in and of itself -- it's ingenious and engaging. It's just the raw materials and the selling that sticks like 3-day-old fish...

[Goonie]

Omellette,
Sorry you feel this way and I can understand how frustrating things can be. Most of my sales are made from when I am AFK and in the house but about 25% of them are made while I am in Antonica harvesting or adventuring.
You can still revert back to the old ways of the EC Tunnel and there are alot of people that do this on my server in Antonica.
I am on cable, so it is no big deal to me to stay logged on. I can see how frustrating it would be for someone on dial up, but then again, I could see how the whole game could be frustrating.
Every night before I go to bed, I log on in trader mode. Then, the next morning is like Christmas!! I can hardly wait to see how much cash I made over-night!
Hope this helps the frustration. :(

[Omellette]

Omellette,
Sorry you feel this way and I can understand how frustrating things can be. Most of my sales are made from when I am AFK and in the house but about 25% of them are made while I am in Antonica harvesting or adventuring.
You can still revert back to the old ways of the EC Tunnel and there are alot of people that do this on my server in Antonica.
I am on cable, so it is no big deal to me to stay logged on. I can see how frustrating it would be for someone on dial up, but then again, I could see how the whole game could be frustrating.
Every night before I go to bed, I log on in trader mode. Then, the next morning is like Christmas!! I can hardly wait to see how much cash I made over-night!
Hope this helps the frustration. :(

Wait a second...

How did you get to sell stuff while you were out harvesting? Or just outside of your bloody room at the Inn? Are you using an Alt? If so, how do you transfer monye between the characters?

I'm not on Dialup, by the way. I'm on Cable with a fantastic connection. I don't like being forced to stay logged in. Especially since my wife and kids use my computer, too. And I don't like anything being online all night -- maybe I'm being anal retentive, but I like turning off stuff I'm not actually using in the middle of the night, heh...

[Moonshade]

I tend to agree and hope they flesh the system out a bit more in the future. I hope for a day when I can hire the services of an NPC merchant to sit in my house and sell stuff while I go out and save Norrath. I can see this current system meshed with something like that. Maybe raise the house rent if you want to use it as a storefront w/merchant. Then if I'm too new and can't afford an in-house merchant, I can still sell the current way by manning my own store. As it is, I am way too ansy and can't sit in my house to sell things. I also don't like leaving my machine on all night as it's massive jet engine fans would keep me up. So I craft for my own, and a few friends needs for now.

[eepjr24]

Wait a second...

How did you get to sell stuff while you were out harvesting? Or just outside of your bloody room at the Inn? Are you using an Alt? If so, how do you transfer monye between the characters?

I'm not on Dialup, by the way. I'm on Cable with a fantastic connection. I don't like being forced to stay logged in. Especially since my wife and kids use my computer, too. And I don't like anything being online all night -- maybe I'm being anal retentive, but I like turning off stuff I'm not actually using in the middle of the night, heh...

I believe Goonie was carrying stuff with them and using /auc WTS ...

As for the staying online, two things. They did it to limit the economy (their words at Fan Faire). They saw too much easy selling as accelerating the economy too much. Secondly, if you are worried about staying online all night, just get yourself a good firewall, either hardware or software. I highly recommend the free version of Zone Alarm for the software version (and purchasing the upgrade if you can).

- Dibbler

[Omellette]

I believe Goonie was carrying stuff with them and using /auc WTS ...

As for the staying online, two things. They did it to limit the economy (their words at Fan Faire). They saw too much easy selling as accelerating the economy too much. Secondly, if you are worried about staying online all night, just get yourself a good firewall, either hardware or software. I highly recommend the free version of Zone Alarm for the software version (and purchasing the upgrade if you can).

Heh, I actually have a really good hardware firewall, but that's besides the point. Like I said, I'm just anal rentetive, and feel the need to "shut it down" when I go to bed. And no pun intended, all your gutter-minded ninnies (like me, hehe)...

If it's an artificial limiter on the economy, then that's one thing. Not that I agree with artificial limiters -- ANY arbitrary "stop" in a system is just something people will use to exploit the system. Not saying anyone HERE is like that, you understand. Just saying that human nature is what it is..

Well, like I said, I'm stepping away from it for a while. By the time I try it again, maybe they'll have the society bugs worked out, and make the changes I feel are necessary to accomodate the crafter best.

[Irda]

In horizons you could put 5 items on a consiare (sp) the consiare sold them while you were off line and if they did nto sell after a week they went back to your bank. Also i think when you logged in you get the coin form sales while you were away. Very nice idea and do not see a way it could be exploited. Also you could build a silo on your property and that would act like extra storage.

[Miele]

In horizons you could put 5 items on a consiare (sp)

Concierge?

I personally have only EQ1 for my playing, and I find the merchant/bazaar system vastly superior to lugging all my sellables around with me all the time and /auctioning. The house/merchant system seems pretty darned identical to the bazaar model used in EQLive; they just broke it up into individual houses instead of a central locale.

I am curious if the original poster ever used the bazaar in EQ1? Or is this the first EverQuest flavor they've played? I understand not wanting things to run overnight... it just seems kind of odd to be so against a system so similar to the previous incarnation. :)

[Flendon]

I really liked selling with the system in the WoW beta (Haven't played live, but I assume its the same). You went to the auction house (available in the large cities) and you could set up an auction for 2/8/24 hours. You set a starting bid and had the option to set a buy now price. You could then go adventure or logoff. When you went back to the city you check your mailbox (located at banks or inns in all cities) and for each item that the auction ended on you will have a message. If no one bid on the item it will be attached to the letter, if someone did bid the money will be attached to the letter.

This was really good for the seller but I didn't like it as much from the buyers viewpoint. When I bid the money was immediately debited from what i had on me. If I was outbid I received the money back (though I never sat around to see if I got the money back as soon as I was outbid or at the end of the auction), but having to essentually buy the item then not receive it for several hours, if at all, was annoying. When I did win or use the buy now option I would get a message (in the mailbox again) with the item attached.

That system has alot of give and take depending on if your buying or selling. Knowing that in EQ2 I will get the item as soon as I pay for it is what makes me happy. I don't want to have to wait 2 hours to receive that ink to make my runes. I have to agree that keeping the economy in check is also important. Though I don't know how well forcing people to stay logged on will work for that. I know in EQ1 I never have more than 2-3k in the bank, but I know people on a regular basis pay 100K for things :eek: That still blows my mind. I think I've lost my point somewhere, but basically keep in mind that this was one of many possible methods the devs could have used and they decided to go with a method that was known to work (to a point).

[Zarasta]

What needs to be done (could help out the monster box makers out there) is to be able to put thing *in* your market board kind of like the bank, or have a limited amount of slots that you could put them in so when someone comes to your room they could click open the market board and buy straight from it. Of course normal broker functionality would apply.

[Davril]

The weirdest thing is that Sony already had a wonderful player-merchant system in Star Wars Galaxies. Heck, that was one of the best-implemented parts of that game. Give me the ability to stock a merchant in my inn room and I'd be one happy camper.

As for online-only selling being a market-limiter, it's not much of a limit if people are willing to leave EQ2 running offscreen while they do other things or go afk.

[Goonie]

Yeah, I was using the /auc WTS method while runnin around. Really depends on what youre sellin. I sell alot of boxes and backpacks so the afk trader is best for me. But I also make armor, which I can run around with and sell. As well as app3 spells.

[Homeslice513]

I don't see why you can't have a system installed such as paying a NPC merchant and such but it will only sell while you are online. At least that allows you to adventure while still being able to have an income.

I know control of the economy was one of the reasons stated but so was they thought of EQ 2 as an adventure game and if items could be bought and sold 24 hours a day then it would lose the adventure for some wanting to go out and find items and such.

I just don't see the point in having to make someone log in and just sit in their room to be able to sell stuff. They know and we know it is just turned into afk selling and where is the adventure in that?

[Ilira]

In horizons you could put 5 items on a consiare (sp)


Concierge?

Consigner :)

That was a super system and one that I heartily miss. Consigner basically took your goods and charged YOU for the commission, UP FRONT. (Helped to keep prices sane). You could have a max of 5 items on any one consigner at a time; and they would bounce back to your bank after a week if unsold. (Commission was not refunded :) ) That was the only way to sell things, other than the person-to-person trade window of course.

I used to absolutely love being out hunting or harvesting and hear a "chink" of money arriving in my pocket, with a little "Soandso has bought your Copper Pick from consigner Jane Doe" type message. Always felt like sending them a tell saying thanks :)

I'm sure I remember seeing somewhere that a similar system was planned for EQ2 but they decided against, I don't remember the reason though :(

Oh yeah, edit to say: cynical mode *ON* -- the current system makes people buy more accounts in order to set up trader mules. 'nuff said.

[Goonie]

I dont think you really need to go to the extent of buying a second account, I know you were being cynical, but others really do this. I have found the afk trader to work great. As far as not being able to adventure and sell, I havent left the basement of Graystone Smithers in 2 weeks, unless it was to run to Oakmyst for more components.
Its funny, I never heard of someone being upset with the afk trader in eq1. Maybe yall just got spoiled on a diff game?

[Ilira]

Personally I am fine with afk/overnight trading -- others I know are not, and have indeed bought second accounts for mules. Of course they have second PCs too, so...

I think there's quite a difference between sitting in the Bazaar, which was a pretty busy, vibrant, loud zone, and sitting alone in your instance twiddling your thumbs. Wouldn't be half so bad if there was something to do -- crafting would be ideal if a) you could buy from your broker browse window and b) you could get machines that would do better than crude........ could set up a proper "shop" then, that would be fun :) And online traders might be tempted to haggle more -- at the moment it's a case of put up or shut up, where maybe I'd like to be negotiating a rate for bulk :)

[Goonie]

There is a trader chat channel you can use. And just maybe they will come up with a 'bazaar' chat channel like in EQ1.

[Zendaken]

Its funny, I never heard of someone being upset with the afk trader in eq1. Maybe yall just got spoiled on a diff game?

I would like to think of it as progress. Plus being a bit of a tree-hugger. Why run that power hungry computer all night? Who does that help? In EQ1, we (yes, I played since launch, off & on) didn't know any better. When you're given a boon, do you really complain? Now that we know other standards, leaving the computer on all night just seems like a poor choice. That, and it discriminates based upon connection type. (Some modem places disconnected you after x time, and our European friends have a tendency to pay per minute/hour/whatever.)

There is a trader chat channel you can use. And just maybe they will come up with a 'bazaar' chat channel like in EQ1.

Check out the standard channels, there's a crafter channel and a trader channel already built for each city.

[Goonie]

Thanks for the info Zen. Yes, you are absolutely correct about not complaining because we didnt know any better. But Im guessing it is the people from Horizons or SWG that had the luxury of owning a merchant and now there is no such thing.
I dunno why there isnt, SOE had one in SWG, so its not like it is a new idea to them. Maybe its from a rp point of view? I mean, the only way to sell unattended right now is to be in the home. And sense you wouldnt let a stranger be in your home without you, they dont allow merchants to?
I dunno, Im brainstorming. It would be cool to be able to do this, but we all know on how they are stomping the economy in EQ2.
Maybe there is a reason they dont want people makin a ton of money this early? Maybe they will put mechants in later down the road? Or maybe it will be like in Shadow Bane when you can buy merchants for your towns, so maybe guild halls will get the opportunity to with status points?

Purely Speculation along with my 2cp

[Aelgrim]

Maybe they should make it so that you automatically log into the store when you zone into a trade instance. Sort of like a craftsman going to his shop. The smith is in, stoking the fire and ready to hammer, etc. This way, you're in the shop, making things and selling at the same time. Gee, kind of like real life, you think?

[Sergio]

there are two completely separate issues here:

1. your character has to be in your house for selling, the items have to be in his/her inventory.
the reason: keeping the economy from overheating. that's ok.

2. having to be logged in. the pc has to run all night, consuming power, generating heat and noise.
the reason: stupidity?

i'm sorry but there is NO reason this has to be. none. it's not only annoying for the individual, it's hurting the economy. as long as this isn't changed, there will be no working market for mass products (alchemy, for example).

the solution? simple: a vendor dummy that is only activated when the character logs off in his room. nothing would change (they could restrict this to one character per account) - and we could turn off our computers.

[Valkii]

There were NPC merchant options in DAoC also. You bought your house(or you could use a friends house or guild if there was room and you had permission). Basic, cheapest house was 1 plat, had to buy a porch, 500G, for the NPC vendor to sell from (this way you didn't HAVE to allow access to your house) but the NPC vendor, also 500G I think, (/shrug, I wuit awhile ago :P ) and then you put your items on the NPC, set price and you could do whatever, log off, go adventure/fight, etc. There was a weekly rent on the house, 20G lowest I believe.

I think it is not so much for "player interaction" that SONY is NOT going with this form, probably more to do with hardware, resources, database maintenance on their end. I think the curent system is flawed and weighted eavily toward people with high speed connection etc. Rarely have I heard of broadand connections being dropped by the ISP after a certain amount of inactivity. This problem usually exists for dial-up users, possibly for our European player base, no real idea there, other than fishing trips to Canada and 2 trips to Florida I have never really left Wisconsin in my 48.9 years :P

I also seriously doubt the "Flooding the market" theory as a reasonable excuse for not allowing offline selling. As the system sets now, it is unfair to the people that CAN NOT stay on 24/7: Families with multiple pc users, people on dialup or with ISP's that monitor usage/activity and drop connection etc. Also the people that don't want to have excessive power bills, want it quiet when they sleep (pc in same room??), don't feel the need to leave unused equipment up and running 24/7, all at unfair advantage.

I personally have been selling from house while I sleep, I have made a little extra coin, but that will go quickly when I have to buy the overpriced stroma washes/oils etc which aren't even available on the NPC merchants, etc blah, blah, blah ad nauseum. FIX IT Sony :(

/rant off

[Ausversucht]

Computers don't cause excessive power bills... I have 2 computers that stay on 24/7. One is my file server that I keep in the basement where it is cool and the other is my wife's computer that has the printer attached to it and also is the computer that we generally use to look something up really quick or something. My computer is always left in STR mode meaning that everything is off and when I hit the power it is up in less than 10 seconds. (Only shut off mine due to noise it is a loud *****)

I own my own house, so yes I know what the bills are. My power bill stays at roughly $35US year round except for a couple of small increases during the summer for the window A/C in our bedroom or the winter when the furnace fan starts blowing (sucks much more juice than a computer).

I really doubt that my computers even amount to 1/3 of my "normal" electric bill. (Monitors on the other hand suck juice like crazy, keep them set to a 10minute timer and you'll save a lot of power)

[Amaranthe]

$35 a month? Where the heck do you live and how big is your house?

Sheesh my power bill is 5-8 times that much :(

[Kbern]

$35 a month? Where the heck do you live and how big is your house?

Sheesh my power bill is 5-8 times that much :(

LOL no doodoo

Mine is..um..slightly higher than that. :o

[Ausversucht]

I live in Michigan, have a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house. It is 3 levels (including the basement).


Guess it helps that for the most part it is just me and my wife living there (only have my daughter about 1/2 the time) and we know how to shut off the lights when they aren't needed.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Our House, with an open floor plan, 5 desktops and a laptop on almost all the time... (just changed it so we are down to 4 desktops) costs >$300 a month at the height of the summer heat, in San Diego.

[Ausversucht]

Holy cost of living Batman!!!

[Zendaken]

Not really - before taking a few steps at my place, I was looking at the same range, only in the winter - summer we got away with a fraction, though still more than $50 for fuel & electricity.

Thankfully, looks like we've been able to cut that by more than half in the winter - sealing windows, getting automatic thermostats, putting up heavy curtains, etc.

[Eledril]

Don't think for a MOMENT that SoE wasn't thinking this through clearly. They did it for a REASON.

That reason being? If you want to solely be an artisan/merchant then you need TWO accounts, one to park in the room and constantly sell, and one to craft/adventure.

This isn't bad forethought, but good marketing on their part. Why give you everything for $14.95/month when they can get $29.90 for you to do what you desire.

Plain smart, thats all it is.

[Delar Destanz]

Personally I LIKE the current system. It keeps the economy in balance. Look at it this way, in RL you have a store, do you open your store then go out and go play video games while people come in and buy themselves? No, you monitor your store. Now, I know what people are gonna say, but why can't I have an NPC to do it. I dabbled in ShadowBane and that was a system they had, you buy a building, hire a merchant then put your junk onthis NPC to sell while you were away. Yes, I think overall that would be the best option. But it shold be INCREDIBLY expensive to do. Why?

Because, if we could *easily* buy and place a merchant to sell our stuff the economy would go boom. There would be so much to offer that everything would be too cheap to sustain a meaningful economy. By forcing us to choose crafting, adventuring or selling, we keep the in/out of the economy flowing at a reasonable amount.

As for turning stuff off at night, keeping a computer on and logged on isn't as expensive as you think, maybe a buck or two more a month maximum. Downside, yes, if on dial up maybe lost connection, the server goes down every morning, etc. But overall, I LIKE the forced choice of activity. We had to make that choice in EQLive with bazaar, why all the grumping about it here? Sure in bazaar we could chat easier, but hey, there's MANY channels out there you can join for noise, converssation, whatever. Personally when I'm in merchant mode and not sleeping, I use that time to peruse these wonderful message boards to keep up on the daily happening sand what nots and I make a bundle of gold each time.

Just my opinion tho I WOULD like to see the purchaseable merchant like in ShadowBane.

[Sergio]

RL? think again. in any culture at any given time there are producers and there are stores - sometimes this overlaps and the producers themselves sell from their site of production (the forge, for example). or someone else (most likely a family member or an employee) sells while the producer works. none of this is possible in eq2.

eq2 makes you leave the forge for hours on the off chance that some customers might come by, and prohibits you to get somebody else to sell your wares. that is NOT like real life economy in any way.

"but the bills aren't so high" is very much beside the point. many simply CAN'T let the pc run 24/7, because it gets too hot, because it is too loud at night, because it has to be shared with others. by the way, even this was never the point - the point is: why SHOULD i let it run? where is the sense in letting it run idle? the ingame economy? no. i've already refuted that argument in my earlier post. because it has been the same in eq? ummm....