My experience with Sage, thus far.

[Feeple]

If your in it for profit, dont do it. Heck, if your in it for any practical reason, dont do it.

First - The average cost of a teir 3 spell is about 60s. Thats getting the paper & quill from a woodie, and the ink from an alchemist.

Adept 1's are readily available for less than 50s on nearly every spell.

Granted, Adept 1's arn't available for all spells.. there are certain ones (chill wind, ball of fire, etc..) which the adepts haven't turned up yet, or dont exist to my knowledge... BUT the scribe merchant sells the app 2 versions of these spells for only 20s. Whos going to pay 80s for an app3 when they can get an app2 for 20, or much less an adept 1 for 10-50s?

Blah blah blah "the real profit in being a scribe is the adept 3's" -- No its not. The real profit in adept 3's belongs to whoever finds the metal... and anybody has just as much of a chance to do that as any sage.

I believe im the highest sage on my server, one would think it would be easy to capitalize on this as the other tradeskillers do, except I've come to the realization.. nobody really wants what I make, and since thats all I do, they probably never will.

P.S. Resources are no problem for me, either. I have a partnership with a alchemist and woodworker for at cost exchanges. I still dont see much profit in being a sage.

Feeple, 23 sage

[Andivar]

I have to admit that I have come to a screeching halt in my tradeskilling for this exact reason. Not being able to make my own components from the raw materials I have harvested is, imho, just plain silly. I wasn't in beta, and you cannot imagine my dissapointment when I returned to the dungeon with packs full of suppplies only to find that someone else had the recepies. However, I can deal with that, and that alone wouldn't have stopped me in my tracks.

What has stopped me in my tracks is my experience adventuring to level 20 illusionist. Frankly, the products that sages make are almost completely useless to me as an adventurer. Because I wasn't in beta I was initially very excited about App III scrolls and bought/made a bunch for myself. However, I quickly found that I had replaced all of those with Adept I scrolls that I either looted for free or bought for a nominal fee.

What about Adept III? Would those of you in beta please tell me if that is what makes sage worth it? Of course I have dispaired of harvesting rares - I have never found one, and even if I ever did I could only make 2 scrolls and then I would be done for another two weeks. However, I do see rares for sale at very high prices on the broker from time to time. Please tell me, if I bought those rares and scribed them into Adept III scrolls, are there adventurers out there who would pay enough for the finished product to cover the cost of the materials + some profit?

The problem is that as an adventurer, I can't ever see myself paying 2+ gold for an Adept III spell, which is only a mild upgrade from the Adept I spell I already have. I mean, I have only collected 2 gold in my entire time in the game - why the heck would I spend that for a moderate upgrade of only one of my spells?

I don't know, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for sages here. Please tell me what I am missing.

Andivar

[Jag]

Its still early - cross your fingers and hope they wise up. Lets all just hope THIS version of EQ tradeskilling goes a bit better than the last one, can you say Alchemy???

[Tillek]

Heh, I just came to this board to post the question: "I'm a 19 scholar who originally wanted to be a sage, but my goodness, it looks like I'd be crazy to go that way".

1) You can only make spells. That means you won't level very fast at all, since you won't be able to do any tier 3 subcombines.

2) Adept 1 spells drop like crazy. Why would somebody want my lousy App3?

3) The only time I will be making an Adept 3 is when somebody comes to me with the rare component I need to make it. And I can't even make it until I've paid the insane cost of the dropped recipe book.

My partner in crime has already decided to go alchemist. I'm now thinking about becoming a jeweler instead. I was all excited about dinging 20 tonight, but after thinking about it, and after reading threads like this, I'm not nearly as excited. It feels like I'm losing so much more than I'm gaining.

[Solarax Manastorm]

you know . i was all set to become sage also but like the first post and the rest of you guys i just cant seem to justify it. i have the scrolls and stuff for making adept3s and have a 2nd tier rare that i made into suzuri ink ( which btw is japanese for inkstone used in shuji ) so im seriosly considering alchemist because i am betting it will take soe more than 3 months before they realize that with the changes they implimented they kinda painted the sages into a corner and only high end Guild sages will be of use and then not at a profit

[Sorvani]

Its still early - cross your fingers and hope they wise up. Lets all just hope THIS version of EQ tradeskilling goes a bit better than the last one, can you say Alchemy???
Don't mention alchemy.. the Alchemist in EQ2 are the do it yourself class. tey have no dependancies and no one but maybe Provisioners can make anythig without them. this is so outrageously unbalanced it isn't funny. On top of that, SoE gave Alchemists the ability to mike fighter skills. with no interdependancy at all unlike every other skill in the game. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[FelishannaSecretlight]

OOC.

I'm still a 15 Scholar, and I'm undecided which of Sage or Alchemist to choose, and I can see advantages to both. Achemists *are* certainly less dependent, but also, the heavy workload and producing hundreds of trivial subcomponents is a bit of a put-off. Sages get the 'glory' so to speak of the big combines, but are a *lot* more dependent. I'm still 'umming and ahhing' over the choice. With the exception of the post directly above, this is a good thread to help assess the choice.

... this is so outrageously unbalanced it isn't funny....

There is always one stupidly unbalanced overreaction post in a thread, and yours is it. If you feel they are so great, go re-roll and make one and quit complaining.

Felishanna of Lanys T'Vyl
Level 17 Cleric
Level 15 Scholar
Currently residing in Castleview Hamlet, Antonia Bayle.

[Moock]

Felishanna,

The attack on Sorvani's post wasn't needed, everything that is said is correct. When you get to level 20+ maybe you will see what they are talking about.

Moock
21 Mystic
21 Sage

[Zendaken]

Moock has it right. Please take care when shaping your sentences. Thanks.

[Arilin]

i know its the sage forum, but i felt obligated to reply to sorvani

being an alchemist isnt all about the money, so to speak... you'll be dealing with DOZENS of people who expect to throw supplies at you, and have you spend an hour making them combines for free while getting dismal experience

on top of that, you get the joy of knowing more than half of your potions and poisons are broken, or have ingredients missing to make them and even if you get lucky and make a poison that DOES work, the NPC sold version costs a 6th of the price, and works just as well

on top of that, you get the added joy of knowing that since adept 1 books drop from the sky that you'll be lucky to sell an app3 fighter essence

and then, you realize somewhere around level 24 that you will be grinding out ALL THE WAY to level 30 doing level 20 and 21 recipes

welcome to alchemy...

[Moock]

Arilin,

Not sure why everyone seems to want to attack Sorvani's post. What Sorvanil has said is this
"SoE gave Alchemists the ability to mike fighter skills. with no interdependancy at all unlike every other skill in the game"
this is a truth, nothing you post can counter that. I could be missing something here but I don't see anything about money, only the fact a Alchemist doesn't need the help of anyone else to make a finish combine, unlike 99% of the other trade skillers. Sages need to work with two other classes you need none, Jewelers need to work with two other classes, again you need none.

"on top of that, you get the added joy of knowing that since adept 1 books drop from the sky that you'll be lucky to sell an app3 fighter essence"
This applies to any class that makes spells..

As for bugs and broken items each class has its share.

Moock
21 Mystic
22 Sage

[Culdi]

I think the drop rate on Adept books is severly hurting the scholar and its subs. Its only natural that the # of adventurers outpace the # of crafters, so again its natural for there to be a high number of books showing up from drops. With tradeskillers, we have a floor price we can't go under, the cost to create. With a 0% markup, and giving 3 silver per t3 resource, a single priest/mage t3 spell costs 13s to make. Add in some mark up to alchemists for washes, craftsman for quill paper, and its even higher. Yet Joe_Blow_Adventurer can get anadept drop book and sell for 6s (there is a lvl 16 summoner spell, Seism, thats up for 6s for Adept I right now).

IMO, Dropped books should be App2 level. Very Rare drops should be Adept I, I'm talking rare on par with harvested rare rarety. Then the consumer can either buy the cheapo app2 dropped, or pay the crafter for a good app3. The rich consumer can get the rare drop Adept 1 or the crafter made Adept 3. It keeps that balance such that tradesman arent useless.

As for alchemists, I think their glory days are numbered. Once we start seeing the societies working and leveling (at least now status isn't poofing) and washes/oils/tempers start being vendor sold, the demand for an alchemist will dry up. As was mentioned the poison/potion line is useless.

[Korsis]

As was mentioned the poison/potion line is useless.

Having just killed Gustfeather in Commonlands with three people levels 20-23 ONLY because the cleric had a mana potion that the guild alchemist had made, I have to disagree. Your milage may vary.

[FelishannaSecretlight]

Zendaken,

re- Sorvani's comment on Alchemist being "overbearingly imbalanced".

My own analysis of the various class abilities does not lead to such an extreme judgement. The fact that I am currently not yet 20 is not relevant to my ability to perform such an analysis.

Ask yourself, was that statement he made "justified"? Could it be seen as an "attack" on the alchemist class (and those who follow it)? I took offence to it's "overbearingly" (to use his word) negative tone, and replied accordingly, though perhaps one word I used was inappropriate.

Nevertheless, you are a moderator here, I must bow to your will; I will post no further on this thread, unless directly addressed.

Felishanna of Lanys T'Vyl
Level 18 Cleric
Level 15 Scholar (still unsure on Sage or Alchemist)
Currently residing in Castleview Hamlet, Antonia Bayle.

[Ollimonger]

I think the drop rate on Adept books is severly hurting the scholar and its subs. Its only natural that the # of adventurers outpace the # of crafters, so again its natural for there to be a high number of books showing up from drops. With tradeskillers, we have a floor price we can't go under, the cost to create. With a 0% markup, and giving 3 silver per t3 resource, a single priest/mage t3 spell costs 13s to make. Add in some mark up to alchemists for washes, craftsman for quill paper, and its even higher. Yet Joe_Blow_Adventurer can get anadept drop book and sell for 6s (there is a lvl 16 summoner spell, Seism, thats up for 6s for Adept I right now).


Sorry if this seems antagonistic, but I check the Broker from time to time for spells and what not. I have yet to see a Tier 2 Adept 1 regularly sell for less 35ish sp (Maybe they are just getting snapped up by the folks who spend all day in Merchant mode buying and selling) much less a Tier 3 Adept 1. The Scholars/Sages on my Server are making a killing. Period End of Story.

I do agree with the rest of your post though that the Adepts do seem to be a bit common, and I fear that as time goes on they might kill the market that is there currently for App3. Also Alchemists will see a lessening of Demand for Tempers and such once the Societies start leveling up and are working properly. However these are the problems you face being on the cutting edge of Tradeskilling. The folks coming into crafting in a few months will have it much easier. Sucks but there is not much you can do about it.

[Gojira]

I'm havinga blast with my Sage and Alchemist to be (Only 13 and 15 respectively) but I'm making enough money to continue to further my art and pocket some change as well.

Make friends with Jewellers and Craftsmen and you'll be ok.

The only real problem I see is what the first poster mentioned. The HORRIBLE price gouges people think they can make with their Tier 1 and Tier 2 rare harvests.

I've seen silver and coral going for 15 GOLD on some PC Vendors.

That's just plain stupid, and kills the market IMHO.

[Dafydd]

The only real problem I see is what the first poster mentioned. The HORRIBLE price gouges people think they can make with their Tier 1 and Tier 2 rare harvests.

I've seen silver and coral going for 15 GOLD on some PC Vendors.

That's just plain stupid, and kills the market IMHO.

We all see a few of those rares listed at those prices but do you actually see them being sold for those prices?

[Gojira]

We all see a few of those rares listed at those prices but do you actually see them being sold for those prices?

I don't know if the traders are shutting off trader mode, or if the items are selling. I see them up sometimes, then other times I don't.

I would imagine guild funds may be used to buy some.

Heck, I'd buy them for 50 silver, or even 1 gold, but I can't find them for that.

[Sorvani]

i know its the sage forum, but i felt obligated to reply to sorvani

being an alchemist isnt all about the money, so to speak... you'll be dealing with DOZENS of people who expect to throw supplies at you, and have you spend an hour making them combines for free while getting dismal experience

i didn't mention money

on top of that, you get the joy of knowing more than half of your potions and poisons are broken, or have ingredients missing to make them and even if you get lucky and make a poison that DOES work, the NPC sold version costs a 6th of the price, and works just as well

on top of that, you get the added joy of knowing that since adept 1 books drop from the sky that you'll be lucky to sell an app3 fighter essence

and then, you realize somewhere around level 24 that you will be grinding out ALL THE WAY to level 30 doing level 20 and 21 recipes

welcome to alchemy...

as i'm obviously not an alchemist i can't comment on half you potions and poisons broke from 20+ like they are from 10-19. but grinding from 24+ on low recipes? are you ignoring fighter apps? I just looked at all the essentials books from 25-29 there are 8 or more fighter apps per level. ie white con recipes that you can make with no other requirement than the time it takes you to make the ink and harvest. Yes i know it is 75 level 20-21 combines per stack of ink, but all the other classes have masses of 20-21 combines for the "Primary" ingredient for their stuff. aka Carbonite bars and Ash Boards just to name two. By no means does this mean grinding all the way to 30 on level 20-21 unless you are ignoring half your abilities.

Even if you don't want to sell the apps to players, you can make one of each for the discovery xp bonus, then make sets of 10 for your workshop society quests for 1.5 gp(about the same as selling it to a merchant) and society XP. thus unlocking more stuff for your society.


So yes Alchemists are severely unbalanced in regards to all the other tradeskill classes.

[Millbro]

I just turned lvl 20 sage.. and now im thinking i made a wrong choice.. but i also made good money as a scholar making spells tho.. but i also made my own ink... and i check the broker and ppl charge like 20s for a pristine gual ink.. i mean cmon.. i sell most app3's for like 25s so how the hell can i make teir 3 app3's for less than 35s each bc i cant make paper and ink im screwed lol.... anyone know if we get more patterns to grind on .. and i was wondering where i get the components to make that lvl 20 pattern.. i didnt see either on the market so im not sure.... But what i really dont understand is some ppl are selling app3's for like 6-9s each and thats the spells that adept1 are not common.. but still they dive way down there.. i cant make a app3 for that low so how the hell.. are they working in the red or somthing just paying to good will?

[Trebor]

I'm assuming you are talking about 20+ App3's. Not sure why people would sell them for anything less than 12 silver, as thats what they can vendor them for :P

[sifer]

If you've made it all the way to lvl 20 and only ever made 2g, you're doing something really wrong somewhere. If you're not selling 3g worth of spells a day BEFORE you ding lvl 20 sage, you're doing something really wrong. The title of sage is very different to being a sage or even calling yourself a crafter. I'm currently a 24 sage and over 85% of my crafting time is spent making spells that give me no xp at all and I make 3 - 30g (30g is my best day ever in coin (or maybe the day I got 3 jasper)) a day selling those spells. Go figure.

There seems to be this fixation out there that if you level up faster, the money will start poring in. Or you'll get your deserved respect. WRONG! Higher levels only means you expand your potential customer base, not your sales. I haven't scribed 1 even level App3 spell and I'm almost level 25. A lot of those high level characters are only upgrading their lower level spells. They like it that someone extremely overqualified is making their items and not turning them away. They write my name down somewhere and a few days later I get a tell asking for more or something else. I've scribed 3 adept3 spells in the last 2 days simply from follow on business and referrals. One of those adept 3's was a level 3 spell, the second was also trivial and the third was even.

I'm still leveling faster than most others and doing it without an alt or all that much assistance from my guild. I'm financing it by making things most of my competitors sneer at. I buy most of my ink, quills and paper from a broker when I can. I've even gone to the fence and bought ink and quills there.

Siferitas
24 Sage
Najena

[Jenik]

Sifer, I don't know what server you are on, but on Lucan Delere, there are hundreds of Adept 1 spells for sale on the vendors. Every time I log in there are about 20 pages of adept 1 and app3 spells. Having tried to sell App3's for 5-10 silver, I know that there is no way in hell I can make even 1 gp a day, much less 2 or more. I doubt you play a Sage, or you'd know this. And yes, I'm level 21 and have made approximately 1gp selling my stuff. I finally just gave up trying to hawk the app3's and just sell them for 3s to the vendor. What's the point of filling all of my slots with lower level app3's when there are 10 times as many Adept1's for sale. The tier 3 stuff has a bigger market, but so far, every spell that someone has requested an app3 for has been tier 3. So far I dont' know anyone who can even provide me with the tier 3 components, so I created a carpenter to make my quills and paper for me, currently at level 19 and making a killing with her selling boxes, unlike my Sage who at level 21 can't make diddly.

I don't usually rant at posters, but you need to realize that different servers have different drops and economies. The only reason I kept with sage is the hope that I can make spells for my guild at some point. I have paid for my skill up's with sales from my alt, who also makes my quills and paper to practice with. To date, I've made exactly 2 Adept 3's. But guess what, I have one of them and I can't even use it on the mobs we're fighting now, because I keep getting "Opponent is too Strong" messages. No way you can sell adept 3's for what people are charging for the rare components. I've seen Master spells selling for less than people are asking for the coral and silver on Lucan DeLere server. Go figure that one out.

[dogbones]

Edit: I thought I had been on enough during 'prime time' to have a good feel for what was available via the broker. Last night I noticed a LARGE increase (at least on the Faydark) server of Tier 2 stuff with a small downward push in prices. Still not too bad. Saw a few App IV's as well.

----

Just hit lvl 16 so not even a Sage yet and my experience is limited. But whether lvl 10 or 40 anyone can see what is for sale by the brokers.

I am on Faydark and I have noticed a severe lack of App III, spells or runes, and very few Adept I, for Tier 2 or Tier 3, and even less Adept III. Most days there are NO Tier 2 runes at all. But it sounds like it is only a matter of time before things end up like Lucan Delere. I should look up what EQ's web page's say about the average level on that server. I think it still lists 10 as the average for Faydark, but I find that hard to believe as it has not moved in the 2 months I have been playing (on and off).

Anyway some info from my server for what it is worth:

Coral is selling for between 7 and 12 gp and I see Tier 2 Adept III, if they are there at all, selling for 20-30gp.

There are a few exceptions, I cannot recall the Adept I that is starting to flood the market (Snare maybe)? and it is selling for 20sp.

I can sell most App III Tier 2's for 25-40sp (not just spells). While I love crafting the final components, ink, pen, and paper are hard to find and since I can make my own ink I do, but the number of combines needed to make a stack is just mind numbing for me and I am not sure how much more of it I can take. I like to have Pristine Ink's at this stage as I want to build tradeskill exp by making higher quality end products, and even with 'button mashing' it takes for ever to push the reagent to pristine, then the dye, then the ink.

[Razasharp20]

I just began tradeskilling to try to find something new besides xp grindin and thought sage would be best way to go as far as me being able to improve myself and friends as well as make some money. This thread has really made me re-consider my future choice of becoming a sage. Im 15 scholar right now and did notice the huge dependency on outsourcing materials from other tradeskillers. I thought I could counter this by making my second character a "paperboy", somone simply to make me the quills and paper i need for all my spells. I dont plan to get him past lev 20(He's 11 craftsman right now) and i was wondering how bad the outsourcing of materials would get if I became a sage. Really, how drastically do the recipes change. I am really doing this mostly for improvemnet of my character so if its going to be a hassle getting materials, I'd rather just be an alchemist which seems to be more self sufficient, easier to reach finished products. Are alchemists completely self-sufficient anyway?

[Tanzin]

"i was wondering how bad the outsourcing of materials would get if I became a sage"

Heh, 100% outsourcing. You can't make any of the components for your spells after 20-something. Ink, paper, or quills. I was able to make all my stuff up to Carbon ink, Tapa paper, and Ash Quills, Tier 3 goods, and now I will be depending on others for goods from here out. Make good friends with someone and trade stuff, or better yet, join a friendly guild where you can do so amongst several if you want to be a Sage and don't want to go broke buying supplies. :X

I really enjoyed being able to make the inks myself. Yes it was tons of work and makes me appreciate alchemy. I can understand having to buy 1 or 2 of the 3 parts from others. But all 3? Uggghhhhh.

Then again, the profit cost is what will determine if this is all worth it. The higher the tier of spell, the fewer adepts you see out there. So the apprentice spells sell for enough, IF you can work out deals with folks. If I bought all the components, it would not be profit at all I guess until way up there.