Crude and pristine spells

[Irda]

Is thier a diffrence between a crude app3 and a pristine app3. Last night in the crafter channel this was brought up and some said the power to cast is diffrent and some said it was not. No one was backing up thier word with proof. I hope this is not true thier are enoght diffrent version of the spells not i hate not to buy a spell upgrade jsut cuz it is not pristine

[Ngreth Thergn]

We are still working on proving it.

We have proof that the power needs CHANGE when scribed.

As for proof of deferent power costs at different qualities... people are esentially telling us "I don't need to prove it with a screen shot becasue I said so" which we are not taking as proof :)

so there is still testing that needs to be done on this since everyone who has said there is a difference refuses to prove it :)

[Aturiel]

While making spells for my alt priest, I noticed that the resultant spell scroll that pops up when the item is complete had all the same stats as the same Apprentice I version that I currently had. However, after scribing and re-examining it, the power for Minor Healing and Smite went up by 2 to 3 points. Now I don't know, and haven't found sufficient evidence, that different levels of scrolls (crude to pristine) have different requirements between them, but I do know the info you get when the item is complete is not accurate, and you must scribe the spell to get the actual requirements. I'm along the line of thinking, though, that since you can't scribe another quality of the same Apprentice 3 spell, that there is no different between qualities.

[Lohiro]

When I finally got enough money, I went to the broker and bought the spell "Lightening Burst(App3)." A couple days later I started dabbling in crafting and eventually made some spells. I crafted a 2nd Tier "Lightening Burst" and noticed that it required 3 less power to cast then the one I had scribed. When I tried to scribe the "better quality" spell I could not because I already had the App3 spell scribed.

I submitted a ticket and after some lengthy discussion, and some screenshots mailed to the GM was told;

"All qualities of spells work identically. The only reason to craft one of higher quality is for a higher amount of crafting experience for the end result." The spell I had crafted had a bugged stat.

As I am somewhat of a skeptic I decided to run a little test. I gave my spell to a mage to use,asking that they let me know what the power requirement to cast was when they reached my level. As soon as they scribed the spell, the power went from 12 to 13. When they dinged to level 10 (my level) it was at 15 power which is the same as my bought spell.

It looks as though there may have been at one time a planned difference in spell quality. Which is why there are different Power Requirement numbers until scribed. At which point all spells revert to the default, an App3 spell is an App3 spell.

[PhantomCleric]

I'm tend to agree there is no difference. One thing I noticed is if you have a pristine scroll and a crude scroll (quality of course not the name since they both are called the same) and you examine one of them then examine the other, no new window pops up. You get the same window you had for the first examine which suggests to me that there is no difference between them so the code is using the same pointer to the object in question.

[Aturiel]

Lohiro, your experience can be explained with what occurred to me. What happens is the spell that popups and you can examine after you finish making the spell is inaccurate information, not neccessarily bugged. I'm not 100% sure this is how it happens for everyone, but when I examined the new Apprentice III scroll (before scribing it, of course) it had identical stats as the lower Apprentice I version I already had. However, after scribing the spell and re-examing the spell the stats had changed and reflected the Apprentice III level of spell. I wouldn't call the scroll-making system bugged, just a cosmetics problem with the UI about showing the actual higher-level version stats instead of whatever current level of spell you currently have.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I beleive the power level you see for the spell is the power level at the level the sepll would be aquired.

I.E. for lightning burst, it says 9. At level 1 it probably costs 9 power. At level (whatever) it costs 15 power (but also does more damage)

The spell system seems to be based on a set EFFICIENCY not a set power cost.

so you get a spell that is efficency say 2. (just an example)

with an efficiency of 2. at level 3, it costs 9 mana and does 18 damage.
at level 10 it costs 15 mana and does 30 damage. (still efficiency 2)

at 50... it costs 100 mana but does 200 damage.


Now, going up the "level" of the spell (App1-3, adept 1-4, master 1-4) the effeciency gets better.

That same spell at apprentice I may be efficiency 2, but at apprentice 3 is efficency 2.5 AND has a Higher start on the curve... so at 3 it costs 10 power instead of 9 power, And does 25 damage instead of 18 damage.

The adept III may be effeciency 4, and start at 15 mana for 60 damage at level 3...


(again arbitrary for making the point)

[Zelik]

From everything I have experienced first hand and have read on various boards I would have to agree with Ngreth. The factor of the spell increases based on the level of spell you scribe. The quality of the spell is only beneficial to the crafter in that it grants them more xp and a better chance for skill-ups.

[Bihlbo]

To test this out, the other day I made 2 tier2 fighter essences (both Mangle). The first was Pristine in quality, and the second was Crude. When inspecting them, the examine window not only was the same, but once I had the window up to inspect one, it didn't open a second window for the other item. Both were 100%, exactly the same.

This is a very hard thing to prove with screenshots.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I did the same thing (by acident... my second scroll had 2 crit failes then 5 fails as the first 7 rolls... from a pristine ink!!! I was lucky to get a crude.) and could not get 2 separate ones up :) they were both the same though when I closed and opened each seperately.

[johnsl]

Oh dear.

So dumping all those 'plain' inks and using pristine only to get 'better' spells was a major loss. I should just dump in whatever ink (primary ingedient) I make regardless of quality and push it through.

That seem to be the way it works.

I made a spell with 'plain' ink by accident and couldn't see the difference afterwards - hence I ended up here to find out I've been wasting a bunch of time and components to get pristines which would have been just as good as crudes (ignoring the XP benefit - but I could have got that with bags and boxes and made money!)