Is this a bug or is this a gotcha? Artisans Arcana 9

[JohnPWest]

I just paid good money for anArtisans Arcana 9 (Not sure of the exact title.. did not have log on). It appeared to have a bunch of "Adept III" spells including healing and courage, etc. I pay a nice pile of silver, scribe it, and discover that "Courage Adept III" is IDENTICAL to "Courage Apprentice III" which I already have from my basic book set! All of the products from the recipes in this book come out as "Adept III", with a different icon, but they are identical to "Apprentice III" in their description.

Disgusted Dwarf

[Ngreth Thergn]

Well, there are hidden things that do not show up on the scrolls.

For example, you will give more AC with an adept over an apprentice. (I had this proven with a difference of 4 AC from Apprentice 3 to adept 1 at level 9. The difference should be greater as you gain more levels as things do scale)
it MAY cost less power to cast (it may not).

So there IS a difference. It is just sometimes not immediately obvious what the difference is.

[Eileah]

I was just reading this morning about this same subject over on the EQ2 forums.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=2818

I upgraded my courage App I to Courage App III.

before when i buffed myself with my 2 buffs as shaman level 16 (courage and spiritual seal) i would have 519 hitpoints in all.

now after upgrading my courage to App III i only get 495 Hitpoints in all.
That can't be right.

I didn't have any other beneficial buffs on me other than those two before.
When i bought it, i scribed it,Looked at my HPs and casted App III courage while having the App I courage on me.
Then i watched the Hitpoints go down from 519 to 495.

I have the recipes for adept3 spells and was going to make them today but I am not sure I want to trade HP for AC....

E

[Ariadne]

With Minor Archhealing.. app 3 I was healing for up to about 90 points a time.. Minor Archhealing Adept 3 I've healed 176...

Now, it could be the fact I've gained a level (only one level) as well, but it's made a huge difference to my heals..

[Stefenn]

It could be that when you acquired the upgrade that you were not skillful enough to take full advantage of it, hence the effect is somewhat lower than it might be otherwise. Basically it would be like using a recommended 50 item at level 30 in EQ 1, vs. using a rec 30 item with worse initial stats.

Not that this is a particularly good or right way to do it, but it might explain the discrepancies.

Vivid / Tylendell / Merkurial / Walkurie

[Ruffi]

It seems that nobody but me understood the question. They aren't asking the difference between app3 and addept 3. They are asking why they are using a recipe to make an adept 3 and getting an app3 instead. If I knew I would answer but I don't :(

[Ollimonger]

Actually he is getting Adept 3 not Apprentice 3 but said the description when he examines them is the same. Which is true but the descriptions are not very detailed. They dont give you how much damage (or benifit) just how much it costs to cast. The Adept Version could last long, do more damage, heal more, or even be a different type of pet. (in the case of Tellurian Recruit goes from Beatle to Spider) It also doesnt tell you how efficent the spells are or are not. Those are the differences you will have to scribe them and use them for a more exact answer as the only Adept spell I have is Telluiran Recruit Adept 1.

[Jolon]

I know the spells are different becuase I have that book and right now I am unable to find the ingrediants for it so I can make them. However the ingrediants are different and I would say that the spells are as well.

[JohnPWest]

Ok.. I understand that the scroll examine doesn't tell the whole story. I still think it is wierd that the skill requirement is the same for both versions.. Maybe I just don't understand/appreciate the spell system in EQ2. Is it that once you are qualified to cast "Burning Hamsterbreath" (i.e. you are given the Apprentice I version), you are qualified to cast any enhanced version you can get?

Deckadron

[Kerbouchard]

The way I understand it, is that all you do with upgrades is adjust your level for effect calculation.

Apprentice 1 = your level minus 1
Apprentice 2 = your level
Apprentice 3 = your level plus 1
Adept 1 = your level plus 2
Adept 2 = your level plus 3 (dont exist in game, far as i know)
Adept 3 = your level plus 4
Master 1 = your level plus 5 (this is a guess, someone needs to verify)
etc
etc

At level 10 with apprentice 1 spell you cast as a level 9 character.
At level 10 with adept 3 spell you cast as a level 14 character.

You can scribe all updates from level 1. Thats all there is too it. If I am wrong here, then I would very much like to learn about it.

Blarg, Runnyeye

[Sorvani]

Is it that once you are qualified to cast "Burning Hamsterbreath" (i.e. you are given the Apprentice I version), you are qualified to cast any enhanced version you can get?

Yes

[Zarasta]

Ok.. I understand that the scroll examine doesn't tell the whole story. I still think it is wierd that the skill requirement is the same for both versions.. Maybe I just don't understand/appreciate the spell system in EQ2. Is it that once you are qualified to cast "Burning Hamsterbreath" (i.e. you are given the Apprentice I version), you are qualified to cast any enhanced version you can get?

Deckadron

Don't forget to look at the "con" of your spells, they do change...before I found an Adept I version of the first Mage DD *name escapes me at the moment* it was a blue con, now after upgrading to Adept I it's an orange con. What exactly that does for a spell besides making it fizzle more often (maybe increase skill-ups faster?) I don't know

[Zendaken]

Couple of reminders - there are SUSPOSED to be App IV, Adept IV and Master IV. Or at least in some point in the past they were on the list.

As far as the con of the spell, think of it as your upgrade potential. If it's white (or lower), you're done getting improvements for it. If it's orange (or higher), you've got at least one more level of improvements from it.

The color of the spell should not really affect fizzles, but I really have no clue on that. But the color concept is the same for weapons and armor. (*shrug*)

[Grouchie]

I have the recipes for adept3 spells and was going to make them today but I am not sure I want to trade HP for AC....

E


As I remember, in EQ-Live, each 1ac was equal to 7.5hp.. so if you gained 1 ac, but lost 7.5hp, it was a wash and no gain was achieved.. but if you gained 3 ac, and only lost 10 hp, then it was advantageous...

Not sure if that is the same in EQ2, but its worth thinking about....

[firza]

As I remember, in EQ-Live, each 1ac was equal to 7.5hp.. so if you gained 1 ac, but lost 7.5hp, it was a wash and no gain was achieved.. but if you gained 3 ac, and only lost 10 hp, then it was advantageous...

Not sure if that is the same in EQ2, but its worth thinking about....
class dependend though :)